Flint & frizzen questions in a TC Flintlock Rifle

[johnm4688]

New Member here,
My apologies if this forum is not for "modern" flintlocks. I am a new shooter who will be hunting deer in Pa. with a TC Firestorm 50 cal. flintlock rifle. I have a bunch of questions and if you have any suggestions for any other website please do. I have been shooting the rifle for two weeks now and am very happy with accuracy from a bench and offhand. I can hit a 4" black bull offhand at 50 yards (almost) every time. My problem is the rifle will not off every time. 4F in the pan does not ignite....no sparks from flint and frizzen. I am using TC agate flints with the supplied leather in the hammer jaws. I have polished the frizzen with 400 sandpaper. I am wiping the frizzen and flint with a clean cloth or rubbing alcohol between shots. And tried knapping the flint with a piece of solid copper to make the flint sharp....But still after about ten shots I will have problems. Here are my questions:
1) Should the frizzen be polished to a fine shiny smooth surface or should it be hit with rough heavy sandpaper to give it a rough surface.Or should I buy a replacement frizzen?
2) Should the flint bevel be up or down? The TC manuel shows the bevel down and that's what I have been doing.
3)Should I go to the traditional type english flint instead of the TC agate type?
4) The leather holding the flint is pretty thick. I've read that the leather will soften the blow onto the frizzen and that is not good. Would using flat lead be better to hold the flint?
If anyone can suggest any threads or websites or any other advice on Flints or frizzens I would greatly appreciate the help!

John M. from Pa.

 

[Dphar]

Contract Track of the Wolf and get 1/2 dozen of there English and 1/2 dozen of the French flints.
If it will not work with these it needs help.

Dan

 

[Blackpowdersmoke]

John, I too own a firestorm that I bought used last year for a great price. I personally don't care for the T/C flints. Some folks like them, I don't. Use a good hand-knapped English flint such as those made by Tom Fuller. You can purchase them through Track of the Wolf. I use Rich Pierce's hand knapped white flints and like them equally.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/141/1

Rich Pierce hand knaps his "Missouri White" flints and his prices are very reasonable. He is also a member of this forum. You can contact him by email.
[email protected]

I dont think you should "polish" the frizzen face either. Leave it somewhat rough, the flint needs to scrape minute particles of the hardened steel as it travels downward causing them to become "white hot" so to speak.

As for bevel up or down, go with bevel down on a new flint and see what kind of life you get from it before it needs knapping, then try bevel up if you're not satisfied but make sure that the flint is contacting the frizzen at least 2/3 to 3/4 up on the face for whichever method you choose.

I don't use lead in my locks and I'm not trying to start a debate as I'm sure there are others that use it, I've just always used leather. Make sure your flint is of a proper length so that it seats fully back in the jaws, you don't want it pushing back each time it strikes the frizzen.

Lastly, if you've been shooting recently during some of the very humid weather we've been having here in Pa., try 3F powder in the pan as a priming powder. Being hygroscopic, black powder will collect moisture from the air and the 3F doesn't seem to be affected as easily on humid days as 4f is, at least in my personal observations. T/C's vent liner has a large enough hole that you won't notice any difference in ignition speed.

Keep yer powder dry and good luck!

BPS

 

[ebiggs1]

Welcome John!

I have a TC Firestorm and I took a lot of heat from this forum's members but mostly what they said was false. :td: It is not a prized gun here but a few of us shoot them and they are just tolerated.

OK, right off I will say my Firestorm is the fastest shooting flintlock I own, which currently numbers 24 and includes several different manufacturers and two custom makes that have what is considered the best in parts.

Here is what I do: :thumbsup:
Use 4F GOEX as a prime. The moisture thing you hear is silly, forget it.
Make sure it (the prime) is against the touch hole and even trickles inside is good.
OH, before we start make sure the gun is clean. Now I mean CLEAN, very clean. :shocked2:
Easy to do on a Firestorm!

My main load is 80 grs of 3F GOEX with a Hornady patched RB with .018 pillow ticking patch.
I use Bore Butter or plain olive oil as a lube.

Now for the flint. Throw that cut agate thingy that TC sent with the gun as far as you can.
You simply have to get Black English real hand knapped flints. You want the bevel up.
You want to make a scrapping action that is approx. 60 degrees to the frizzen. You want flints that are as big as you can get into the cock's jaws, even a tiny bit wider than the frizzen is OK. You want flat flints if possible.
Stop “polishing” it. And it will only need to be wiped with a cloth with denatured alcohol after several shots. Certainly not every shot!

Use leather that is fairly thick, 1/8th inch or so. Do not use lead.

Another “do not” is don't use subs as a prime or even as the main load.
If this doesn't work we will dig deeper. :wink:
Let me know how you fair. :grin:
EB

 

[CrackStock]

Welcome to Muzzleloading!

We tend to the more traditional here, but hopefully we are not rude about it. I started with a T/C and still have several of them.

As to your questions:

1) Should the frizzen be polished to a fine shiny smooth surface or should it be hit with rough heavy sandpaper to give it a rough surface.Or should I buy a replacement frizzen?

Just start shooting your rifle after cleaning the frizzen to remove any production or protecting oils. Rubbing alcohol on a patch will do.

2) Should the flint bevel be up or down? The TC manual shows the bevel down and that's what I have been doing.

I would try bevel down first. This begins the scraping earlier in the process and is a softer arc. I would reverse at some point just to compare the result.

3)Should I go to the traditional type english flint instead of the TC agate type?

English or French will do nicely. The agate is a bad choice.

4) The leather holding the flint is pretty thick. I've read that the leather will soften the blow onto the frizzen and that is not good. Would using flat lead be better to hold the flint?

There are a number of opinions regarding lead wraps for flints. I personally use a thin leather, but have seen a lot of shooters using the very thin leather wrap.

As for references to other on-line resources here is one:

Bob Spencer's Black Powder Notebook


CS

 

[MSW]

good advice from Crackstock. ... i have tried both leather and lead as a flint wrap in my Renegade, with the nod going to lead, but not by a great deal.

if you use the site's search engine, you might be able to find a photo study which was done by (i think) Pletch, which indicated that leather actually worked better, but not so much better as to put the issue to bed.

this 'spitting contest' has been going on, as i am lead to believe, since someone started making flintlocks, and it continues to this day. the best advice i can offer is to try both and see which method works best in that particular gun.

as far as the T/c agate thingie, i cannot fathom why they bother to ship them ... never had one work and i've never seen one work ... dispose of it as you would see fit - the county landfill comes to mind, unless you can use it to discomfit a politician or some other scoundrel ...

good luck, and welcome to the forum!

 

[Rifleman1776]

I am using TC agate flints

Others have already given good answers. The agate flints that TC provides have been reported to be pretty much worthless. That is not an indictment of all sawn flints. I use some that are great but they are vastly different than the TCs.
Most popular are the black English flints. As others mentioned, our own Rich Pierce makes a very highly respected white flint.
Good luck. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[johnm4688]

Hello all,
I was hoping this forum was the friendly type and that's just what it is!! Right off the bat I want to say thanks!...I have learned more in the last two days from you fellas that I could have hoped for. I have ordered english and french flints and a bunch of other stuff from thetrackofthe wolf place. What a great website! I always thought black powder shooting was cheaper than cartridge shooting...I've spent alot of dough in the last few weeks! Anyway, thanks for all the advise...you guys are great and I will let you know how the new flints work. I have somemore questions for ya...I'm still learning how to navigate this forum...somethings are confusing. I am making a new post called "Frizzen life and other newbee questions"

John M. from Pa. :bow:

 

[Zonie]

IMO, muzzleloading black powder is still pretty cheap (after you have the basic equipment). :grin:

Looking at some of the prices lately a flint might cost $1.00 but if your lucky it will give at least 50 shots (if you knap it). That's .05 cents/shot. (Percussion caps are about 5 cents too).

At $20/pound for powder a 70 grain powder load will cost 20 cents/shot.

A store bought roundball might be had for 15 cents.

A store bought patch + lube might be around 10 cents.

That's about 50 cents/shot.

If you cast your own roundballs and cut your own patches out of pieces of cotton cloth and make your own patch lube the price of the ball will drop to about 5 cents and the patch + lube will cost less than a penny.

That makes a shot cost around 31 cents.

Compare that with a modern cartridge gun of similar deer killing power where a cartridge can cost you well over $1.00 each.

 

[CrackStock]

BUT...

The bug can bite you and then you will want a gun that is over $1,000 just for components.

From there you will buy a lot of tools to make accouterments. A bag of horns will follow and then you will need half a cow hide to make bags and straps. Then a huge milk crate full of molds and a powder magazine along with a ton of lead to go with the hot pot, ladle and ingot mold.

How do I know?

My dear wife reminds me of all of these things on a frequent basis...

My point is that very few of us do this because it is cheap. We do it because the smoke and fire thrill us and because we love our toys!

CS

 

[cynthialee]

I've spent more money in the last few months on BP supplies and rifles than I have in the last 10 years on modern firearms.
There is always something new just screaming "buy me!".

So I of course oblige.

:grin:

 

[ebiggs1]

That's funny? :grin: The more I shoot these things, the more I find the LESS I need! :hmm:

 

[cynthialee]

I have a hard time passing an on sale item.

:haha:

 

[johnm4688]

Thanks again to all of you! All this info has been a great help to this new guy!

John M. from Pa.

 

[johnm4688]

Here's my progress,
I got my flints and other stuff from trackof the wolf...wow, they ship stuff fast! Anyway I decided to try the english flints first. With the TC leather they fit perfect and are the 3/4"x3/4" size. I got nice spark right off the bat at home. I put my old frizzen back on the gun. Went to the range this morning...wow what a difference! Two pushes of 4f in the pan fills it about half way. The first shot seemed like a metallic cartridge going off. Before, with the TC cut agate flint, I would wipe the flint and frizzen with a cotton cloth between shots...even that didn't work all the time...including trying to knap the flint. The english flint, I figured it worked so well I'd give it a test. All I did between shots was take a poke into the flash hole and sweep out the flash pan. Ididn't touch the flint or frizzen. I shot 12 shots of the 275 grain Maxihunters and not one misfire, hangfire, or hesitation. AND the flint still has a nice sharp edge! Big thanks to all of you!!...I'm all ready for the PA Flintlock season in December.......The bad part is I may be getting hooked on this....I think I want to try some round balls!!

John M. from Pa.

 

[MSW]

Insert mad scientist laugh here:


BWHAHAHAHAHA!!! :stir:

he's hooked for sure: to paraphrase the little green fellow with the light saber, once rocks banged have you, forever will they dominate your range time.

glad things are working out for you: i've had good results with the T/C Renegade which i bought many years ago (i think it was '83 or '84). I would be willing to guess that you're shooting a 1:48 twist, which is a design compromise, made in the hope that you will shoot their "maxi" thingie or some R.E.A.L. projectile. (heavier projectiles require a higher rate of spin in order to stabilize their flight).

i would advise you to give roundball a try: once i tried it, i never bothered with the REAL, maxi or sabot stuff- it's just not worth all the bother, in my opinion. Roundball will work fine, if you do your job in the marksmanship department.

(by the way, to get the most accuracy out of your rifle, you may want to check out Dutch Schoultz' paper. His website is
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com

and although some might balk at the price, i've found it more than a good bargain in powder i didn't burn for nothing and time i didn't waste)

good luck with your new rifle!

now, go out there and make good smoke!

 

[ebiggs1]

... Before, with the TC cut agate flint,... ...even that didn't work all the time...including trying to knap the flint.

Knapping an agate flint is nearly impossible to impossible! :td:

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Agate flints are cut with special abrasive wheels. It is something that can only be "redone" with the same specialty equipment. I was given an abrasive wheel that was ok for resharpening carbide edges. It didn't work on the agate flints.