Flint/frizzen relationship?

[Stone]

Thanks guys!

I noticed that if I shim the flint to give it a better angle, there is very little flint left for the jaws to grab .....the flint is nowhere near the screw.

It is definitely not rebounding, it is stopping 1/4 inch short of the bottom of the frizzen.

 

[EC121]

The foot of the frizzen is too rounded and/or the spring is too strong. Stone a flat on the back of the foot to where it will snap open at approx. 30-40deg. just as the flint leaves the corner of the frizzen. Use your thumb to slowly push it open. Don't just snap it. You can't see the angle that way. Then polish the scratches out of the frizzen face. It appears soft, but it might work. Doesn't have to be file hard. Then put a piece of leather or a toothpick under the back of the flint to get a slicing action.

 

[Stone]

The foot of the frizzen is too rounded and/or the spring is too strong. Stone a flat on the back of the foot to where it will snap open at approx. 30-40deg. just as the flint leaves the corner of the frizzen. Use your thumb to push it open. Don't just snap it. You can't see the angle that way. Then polish the scratches out of the frizzen face. It appears soft, but it might work. Doesn't have to be file hard. Then put a piece of leather or a toothpick under the back of the flint to get a slicing action.

Thanks! I don't understand what you mean by the underlined comments?

I will definitely polish the frizzen.

When I put a shim under the back of the flint, it rotates the fflint down and away from the frizzen, and then there is not enough flint for the jaws to hold securely.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Thanks! I don't understand what you mean by the underlined comments?

I will definitely polish the frizzen.

When I put a shim under the back of the flint, it rotates the fflint down and away from the frizzen, and then there is not enough flint for the jaws to hold securely.

Whatever you are doing, keep the flint against the screw. If you are running out of jaw, then the flint will be sticking out too far. When you thump the frizzen with your thumb does it snap forward or just move forward?
Larry

 

[Kansas Kid]

Might also try lead instead of leather. You could hammer a large rifle ball out.

 

[Sidney Smith]

Just to cover all the bases, try this. Put your frizzen all the way forward, with the hammer cocked. (unloaded, of course!) Then lay your thumb across the top of the barrel until the frizzen barely makes contact. Then put the frizzen into battery, and squeeze off the trigger. Did the frizzen contact your thumb? If so, you are just experiencing rebound, not to be worried about. Many new flint shooters make incorrect assumptions on what is actually happening.
If it ISN'T rebounding, remove the frizzen, and polish the contact point with the frizzen spring. Put a dab of grease in there when you reassemble.
I can't agree with the flint being too long, I like mine to nearly contact the frizzens on all my guns.

The flint does not need to nearly contact the frizzen at half cock. That's a myth. My Siler flintlocks all are at least 3/16ths of an inch from the frizzen face at half cock and they all spark lightning fast.

 

[EC121]

Stone a flat on the back of the foot to where it will snap open at approx. 30-40deg. just as the flint leaves the corner of the frizzen. Use your thumb to push it open. Don't just snap it. You can't see the angle that way


If you hold onto the hammer and let it slowly slide down the frizzen. It should snap open approx. when the flint gets to the end of the frizzen face. This can be adjusted by stoning an angle on the back of the frizzen foot so the spring hits the angle and pushes the frizzen open. You can also do it by pushing frizzen open and looking at the estimated degrees. Doesn't have to be exact. Just close.
If the flint is turning down too far after shimming(you only need about a sixteenth), don't push it forward get a longer flint.

 

[oldwood]

My opinion is: I don't see much grease on the frizzen cam lobe. If that's the case , what about the bearing surfaces of the tumbler shaft , frizzen bolt surface , tumbler cam/main spring surface? All these issues , if addressed , will speed the lock up. Recommended flint is French or English. Cut agate is too hard and can gouge frizzen surfaces. The bearing surfaces need to be polished , and proper lubricants applied. I've seen some of these factory locks,and they mostly need work.............oldwood

 

[Stone]

Thanks guys! I am going to look into each and every one of these things.

Let me ask another question, is it possible for the Flint to be too sharp? It appears my Flint is making a gouge at the point of first Contact which could be hampering its smooth movement down the frizzen.

 

[erhunter]

In my opinion you can never have a flint that's to sharp, only dull.

 

[johnfrommd]

As one person mentioned, a napped flint will work better than a cut flint. As for the distance to the frizzen, I put mine up against it when closed with the cock at half cock and tighten the jaw. The flint should hit the frizzen about 1/3 of the way down in order to scrape enough steel for a shower of sparks.

All that said, Traditions doesn't have much quality control and I would speculate that their frizzens aren't hardened properly. You should see if Track of the Wolf sells hardened frizzens for them.

 

[Stone]

As one person mentioned, a napped flint will work better than a cut flint. As for the distance to the frizzen, I put mine up against it when closed with the cock at half cock and tighten the jaw. The flint should hit the frizzen about 1/3 of the way down in order to scrape enough steel for a shower of sparks.

All that said, Traditions doesn't have much quality control and I would speculate that their frizzens aren't hardened properly. You should see if Track of the Wolf sells hardened frizzens for them.

Thanks!

I am finding that this gun, while it meets my immediate need, is really junk. I think strides have been made to correct previous problems because I do not have the problems pointed out in videos from 3-5 years ago.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this might be the result of the trigger adjustment I made. I adjusted the trigger until it was too light and then backed it off a bit. I noticed when it was too light that the hammer would only fall to half cock when I pulled the trigger. I don't know the physics of how this happened but I am going to go pay with the trigger some more and see if that, in fact, makes a difference.

 

[Brokennock]

What size flints does it say it is supposed to take? I know someone earlier stated the measurement and someone else said Traditions guns like small flints, but I'm too lazy to scroll back through the whole thing.

I have a bunch of knapped flints that are too small for my guns. I'll send you some if I have them that measure up.

 

[Jake2454]

the traditions frizzen springs have been excessively heavy on all 3 of my traditions locks. i lighten and i mean lighten mine

 

[mmb617]

I have 5 Traditions flintlocks so I thought I'd give a couple of my thoughts here.

mine sparks okay (or at least I think so) it seems that the arc of the flint travel is not right.

I have my flint 1/16" from the frizzen and I have what I have read is the proper angle on the flint.

All that said, Traditions doesn't have much quality control and I would speculate that their frizzens aren't hardened properly.

I'll agree that some Traditions frizzens aren't properly hardened. Two of my guns wouldn't spark properly right out of the box. Both were fine once I changed the frizzens. I can only conclude the problem was with the frizzens and further assume it was due to improper hardening.

However since the OP says his gun sparks ok I don't see the hardness of the frizzen being his problem. Not that there couldn't be some other problem with the frizzen.

I usually start a new flint just as he described about 1/16" from the frizzen face at half cock, but I use mainly french amber flints and place them bevel down. It seems to me that the Traditions flintlocks like their flints relatively close to the frizzen at half cock. When they get too far away after knapping I have to either move them forward if they're still long enough for the jaws to clamp them or replace them if not.

What size flints does it say it is supposed to take? I know someone earlier stated the measurement and someone else said Traditions guns like small flints, but I'm too lazy to scroll back through the whole thing.

I have a bunch of knapped flints that are too small for my guns. I'll send you some if I have them that measure up.

I've had the best luck using 5/8" flints in all my Traditions locks. I can maybe get away with 3/4" if I notch the leather for more screw clearance.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Thanks!

I am finding that this gun, while it meets my immediate need, is really junk. I think strides have been made to correct previous problems because I do not have the problems pointed out in videos from 3-5 years ago.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this might be the result of the trigger adjustment I made. I adjusted the trigger until it was too light and then backed it off a bit. I noticed when it was too light that the hammer would only fall to half cock when I pulled the trigger. I don't know the physics of how this happened but I am going to go pay with the trigger some more and see if that, in fact, makes a difference.

Your trigger adjustment should be correct. That is the process most of us follow to set the set trigger for target shooting. For hunting you want to use the front trigger unset or have the set trigger pull to be a little heavier.

The sear falling into the half cock notch is not a trigger adjustment issue, but a fly in the tumbler issue or a trigger spring issue. There is a small triangular piece in the tumbler that covers the half cock notch when the set trigger is released. The sear rides on the tumbler, pushing the fly over the half cock notch and the sear rides on the fly over the half cock notch. Make sure the screws holding the bridle in place are snug to keep the fly in place. Remove the trigger plate and tighten the spring that lifts the rear trigger lever. You won't need much adjustment, just enough to lift the sear lever.

 

[Stone]

Okay, after some work, here are my answers to the above questions and my findings.

This gun only has one trigger.

The gun has no recommendation for flint size but I can tell you if I shim the bottom of the flint to produce a steeper angle of impact, it requires that the flint be moved forward and leaves very little flint for the jaws to hold. In the below pic you can see that the flint is already moved forward. If I shim under the back, it rotates the flint pulling it further from the frizzen, requiring me to move the flint even further forward and leaving very little to clamp in the jaws. I will buy longer flints.

I removed the frizzen and its spring and polished all surfaces.

I greased all contact points on the frizzen spring and the trigger spring.

It still will not let the hammer fall all the way, it is stopping 1/4" from the bottom of the frizzen.

Let me ask this because I am only looking at this from a pure engineering standpoint ............. Until I can get this to a gunsmith to get the spring ratios right, can I insert a shim where the red arrow is pointing to increase the trigger spring pressure?

 

[Sidney Smith]

Thanks!

I am finding that this gun, while it meets my immediate need, is really junk. I think strides have been made to correct previous problems because I do not have the problems pointed out in videos from 3-5 years ago.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this might be the result of the trigger adjustment I made. I adjusted the trigger until it was too light and then backed it off a bit. I noticed when it was too light that the hammer would only fall to half cock when I pulled the trigger. I don't know the physics of how this happened but I am going to go pay with the trigger some more and see if that, in fact, makes a difference.

I'm afraid you've hit the nail on the head with your first sentence. Traditions guns are low quality and cause more frustration than they do pleasure. You'll hear all kinds of issues people are having with theirs. I understand that Traditions guns are all some people can afford, so they make do. There are others who will espouse the virtues of these "fine" guns. You do get what you pay for unfortunately.

 

[Stone]

I'm afraid you've hit the nail on the head with your first sentence. Traditions guns are low quality and cause more frustration than they do pleasure. You'll hear all kinds of issues people are having with theirs. I understand that Traditions guns are all some people can afford, so they make do. There are others who will espouse the virtues of these "fine" guns. You do get what you pay for unfortunately.

It's okay, for now, as long as it goes bang! Before I look up to see where the deer went.

 

[bldtrailer]

Both my Traditions locks needed work and the flint bevel DOWN to work best. I weakened the frizzen spring and reshaped the frizzen foot to open more and faster