Flintlock From Scratch

I for one wish I had full machining facilities to make all my own parts too. Most american gunmakers of the 18th century had imported barrels and locks as manufacture was so discouraged in colonial america. But some smiths made their own barrels and locks by file and drill and you can too. I managed just one hand filed lock and three pistol barrels just using what I have. And the hand fit feel will make you feel even better about the finished product

 

Iron manufacture let alone lock and barrel manufactur was discouraged in colonial america. Only two or three real steel mills existed before the Revolution. Most guns back then had imported barrels and locks.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Let me be the fly in the ointment....again. All this machine speak I find curious as the locks and barrels that were made in the colonies and early America were made with none of this stuff.

If one wants to make a lock from scratch out of scraps of steel using modern machine tools just to say they did, fine by me. But it will be no more authentic the ones made from cast steel in the kits available.

To build an authentic lock one starts with wrought iron and tools of the blacksmith. He would then turn to the bench and works those parts to final shape with files. Then back to the forge to harden the parts that require it. Then back to the bench.

Same goes for making barrels on modern machines. Personally, I see no point in spending a small fortune on machine tools to make what can be bought for a reasonable fee. If a one has them already, great!

Now, making one from a billet of iron in the forge would be a challenge, but one is not likely to do this by himself.

Barrels from welded scelps of wrought iron wrapped around a mandrel and rifled on a hand operated rifling bench would be authentic and can be purchased, but the price is in the thousands of dollars vs. the hundreds we pay. Few buyers ordering custom builds have pockets deep enough to pay these.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Greebe]

I think you missed the point. I never said that they had electric operated machine tools hundreds of years ago. They did however have foot, great wheel, and shaft operated lathes dating back to 1715 and I know for a fact these tools were using in manufacturing parts.

I did not say that making my own locks would be more authentic to the time period. I did however state that I wanted to make a lock from scratch. I do not see the issue with this personally, and as I own a machine shop I would not need to invest a fortune into tool.

Some people like myself like to build things. Why, because we can. Just because you do not see the virtue in doing so does not mean that others do not. In the modern age of no one knowing know or having the desire to produce their own goods, I find enjoyment in being able to making things most people cannot. Sure I could buy all the parts and do it that way but where is the fun in that?

I have been metalworking since I was a young kid, doing blacksmithing, welding, and machining. I built a jet engine when I was 14. Why? Because I can and because I enjoy it. Same goes for making my own gun parts.

From your response I would gather that you have never made anything complex and do not know the satisfaction of doing so. Assembling a kit might be great for most people but I like to make things from nothing and be proud of my efforts. This is not for everyone, but there is no reason to try to discourage others from doing so.

 

[Greebe]

Very nice. I would love to see more photo's of your process.

Thanks a lot,
Greebe

 

[jdkerstetter]

I think you missed the point....

No, I didn't. But I wasn't addressing YOU, but this thread and others like it. Heck, I don't even know who YOU are, since you haven't seen fit to complete your profile.

YOU did miss my point however. If you read my response above more carefully you might have understood that I don't really care how or why in this case.

Fact is some people think that a hand made lock or barrel lends more authenticity to a build. My point is that it doesn't, if not done authentically.

Want to machine a lock? Knock yourself out! I didn't say you shouldn't.

From your response I would gather that you have never made anything complex and do not know the satisfaction of doing so....

Need to work on your powers of perception. I mean, thanks for the resume and all, but I didn't presume to know anything about YOU, so pardon me if I think it's funny how you felt you had to do so about me.

Really isn't necessary to go marking your territory so soon after getting here, at least until you've sniffed around and found out who the other dogs in the yard are. :wink:

Lighten up, and you may have a better time here and get more help and better advice. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[wmaser]

Just for the record, your description of an authentic build is pretty much the way I build half of the guns I make. Barrels and locks are made at the coal forge and finished with files. Springs and internals are hardened at the forge. Barrels are reamed and rifled on a homemade reaming bench and rifling machine and stocks are fashioned from the trees I cut in the woods. Brass furniture, trigger guards and buttplates, is cast in sand moulds. I do use an electric drill and grinder, however. I have also made several roundball moulds for special long guns and cased pistols.
It's not for everybody but I enjoy doing it. As an added bonus, The last four guns I built cost me $0.00.
I think if Greebe wants to build a lock in his machine shop , that's great. Actually, I think that everyone who creates anything, be it a work of art or what some might consider to be junk, should be applauded for his efforts. The other 95 percent of the people in this country are wasting away in front of a TV set.

 

[talkingamoeba]

:thumbsup:

 

[F.G. Ford]

In response to Wild Bill,
Well said!
As to making most gun parts can be made from found material, But it does help if you know the true type of metal that you are working on to get a quality piece at the end.
Most of my lock parts are from old mower deck blades.
Brass kick plates from doors make a lot of end caps and thimbles.
1/4"angle( brass) make great side plates, trigger guards, and butt plates.
I don't find it practical to make my own barrel.
If you take your time, you can get them quite reasonable on the trade blankets and classified ads.
Good luck on your journey to this great past time.
Fred

 

[jdkerstetter]

Having seen barrels and locks forged I have a lot of respect for those who choose to do things the old way. Recreating old things in the old ways gives us a direct link to the past.

Regardless of the OP's interpretation of my first post, I think it was pretty clear that it wasn't a slight of his choices. Locks machined by folks like Bob Roller, using forged springs, are superior to cast parts sets. I just don't want those reading to get the impression that it was the way it was done.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Greebe]

Seems we have gotten off to a bad foot. That was not my intent, I was just feeling like you are attacking me for wanting to do what I want and I was trying to explain, er, defend myself. :yakyak:

As for your comment about pissing on things before sniffing butts, I'm an alpha, what can I say. :blah:

Now once again I am going to say that No Where did I say that I was trying to make more authentic parts in my shop. For some reason you keep bringing that up, but I did not say that. I simple want to build a lock from scrap as others in the post have.

Besides if you forge the parts like wildbill is how would that not be historically correct? If I am going to forge my parts and then use the milling machine to drill a hole, how is that a big deal. A hole is a hole regardless how it was made. I suppose I could use a hand drill to drill the holes, but does that really change things all that much in the final product? If you are going to go that far then nothing would be historically correct if it is made in a shop that is anything other off the grid outside a modern city. :blah:

 

[Tumblernotch]

That's why the next lock I'll be using will be hand forged from wrought iron. I've got the cock forged and mostly filed so far, but I've not had the time to fire up the forge for a couple of weeks. I believe it was Gary Brumfield who said that was the hardest part to forge, so that's what I started with. I hope he was right.

I made a mule ear by machining, filing and forging and have turned tumblers and made a few springs and other parts, but this will be the first complete lock done by simply forging and filing. Might take a while what with other projects, work and other events interrupting, but I'm in no huge hurry (I'm lyin').

 

[jdkerstetter]

...I was just feeling like you are attacking me for wanting to do what I want and I was trying to explain, er, defend myself....

No Where did I say that I was trying to make more authentic parts in my shop....

Next time, do everybody a favor and make sure you are being attacked before you "defend" yourself. OK? :wink:

The authenticity part was brought up by me. Again, I was just saying how I find all of this ironic and I find the irony funny.

My intention wasn't to get into a debate on historical accuracy, or what is correct or not.

Carry on and Enjoy :thumbsup: , J.D.

 

[wmaser]

If the cock is the hardest part to forge, then the frizzen comes in as a very close second. I just completed two frizzens for a swivel breech project. Very difficult to forge identical, or nearly identical parts, by hand at the forge. A lot of tedious filing is involved.

 

[jdkerstetter]

That is my understanding also....that the cock is the hardest part to do, because if done correctly the grain of the iron will follow the "S" curve of the neck.

It's using this grain that gives it the strength it needs to hold up to repeated use. Where if it were simply filed out of iron there would be grain run-out, and like in the wrist of a gun stock, it would not be near as strong and be susceptible to breakage.

Hope I made that clear enough to understand. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Greebe]

Thanks for your reply. I think what you are doing is very cool. Perhaps one day we could get together and share ideas. I want to build a rifle soon but don't have the money for a kit at the moment, but hopefully will be able to get one around Christmas. However I have been thinking of buying just a stock and lock, and then making the rest of the parts on my first built to save some money. Then I would have a lock for a pattern to make more later.

I have contoured plenty of barrels so I am thinking of just drilling and reaming a 24" piece of 4130 DOM to 18 gauge and tapering the profile either all round or taper it and mill the flats for the octagon. Nothing to difficult. However last night some of the electronics on my primary lathe went down in the middle of a job. Baaaa!!!!!!!! I think one of the contractors must have fried. I am not an electrical guy so I am not sure how to test them. Since they are about $120 a piece I don't want to replace all 5 to figure which one it is. Anyways thanks.

 

[Greebe]

That is my understanding also....that the cock is the hardest part to do, because if done correctly the grain of the iron will follow the "S" curve of the neck.

That was a concern with wrought iron as it did have a the laminar structure much like wood, however modern steels do no have this grain. They have a crystalline structure with the size determined by the heat treatment process.The crystalline structure is more homogeneous and not an issue like the old wrought iron.

The wrought iron was cool stuff, it is too bad it is not manufactured any more. I have scavenged some of it in the past and it is fun to work with. It forge welds much better than modern steels because it was self fluxing.

 

[Keb]

some stuff then...so I am thinking of just drilling and reaming a 24" piece of 4130 DOM to 18 gauge and tapering the profile either all round or taper it and mill the flats for the octagon...then more stuff.

Uh oh.

 

[Greebe]

Uh oh what oh?

 

[Black Hand]

There is considerable discussion whether DOM is a safe/appropriate material for barrels. The general consensus is that it should be avoided (though others will disagree).