cowpoke1955
58 Cal.
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- Oct 23, 2006
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There's one on Gun Broker and one on Auction Arms. Both flinters. For some reason, I can't post the site. Everytime, it keeps coming back here. Big Brother is watching :rotf: .
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Flintlock on a budget
- Thread starter Oldnamvet
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Looks like I have time to think things over -- at least until my $600 economic stimulus check arrives. :rotf: Tending toward the Lyman as a kit since I enjoy woodworking and have built kits before for others.
kjg - I haven't figured out how to pm anyone yet.
kjg - I haven't figured out how to pm anyone yet.
ONV,
Just right click on the person's name and you will be taken to a page about them, one of the options will be to start a private topic, that's the way to pm someone. I am in the same boat as you, I'm a lowly government employee (I couldn't let those 10 yrs in the Army go to waste!,) have a wife and stepson (we hope to have another child in not too long), and we are looking to buy a house. Needless to say I don't have much free $$ right now!! I am looking at building kits as it will give me another way to bond with my stepson. From what I hear the Lyman kits are the way to go with a "factory kit" and there are all kind of nice "parts sets" if you have more money and experience then I do.
Ol Thing and Zoar, what made you pick the Trade Rifle over the GPR? Price, shorter barrel, single trigger? Just curious as the GPR gets a lot more attention on these forums. Maybe because it is available as a kit and in left hand.
Sharps54
Just right click on the person's name and you will be taken to a page about them, one of the options will be to start a private topic, that's the way to pm someone. I am in the same boat as you, I'm a lowly government employee (I couldn't let those 10 yrs in the Army go to waste!,) have a wife and stepson (we hope to have another child in not too long), and we are looking to buy a house. Needless to say I don't have much free $$ right now!! I am looking at building kits as it will give me another way to bond with my stepson. From what I hear the Lyman kits are the way to go with a "factory kit" and there are all kind of nice "parts sets" if you have more money and experience then I do.
Ol Thing and Zoar, what made you pick the Trade Rifle over the GPR? Price, shorter barrel, single trigger? Just curious as the GPR gets a lot more attention on these forums. Maybe because it is available as a kit and in left hand.
Sharps54
Sharps---Great question. I chose the Trade Rifle over the great plains for a number of reasons. (1) I hunt in the woods. A Plains Rifle is better for open areas, and not steep topography, branches, swamps, brush: my property is rough. Long guns are cumbersome in the woods. (2) Accuracy is as good as I can shoot so why do I need "more"? I do not bench shoot: I shoot kneeling, prone, standing, in field positions. The Trade Rifle absolutely does the job so I do not need a theoretical better shooter. (3) It was priced right. $275 bucks! Geez, that is better.(4) I like the fact it was the preferred rifle by the natives, mountainmen and trappers and other woodsmen. I feel I can relate to them more than some guys in wagons going over the open Plains.(5) I prefer a shorter barrel. If I was 6 foot 13 I might want a pole to shoot. (6) I like the looks alot. (7) The gun is durable and a bit more simple... kinda like me.... hahaha
- Joined
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Mr. sharps54,
If you will permit, we chose the Trade Rifle because of the single trigger.
Best Wishes
If you will permit, we chose the Trade Rifle because of the single trigger.
Best Wishes
Also, I must say, the felt recoil of the Trade Rifle is very manageable. I can shoot her all day long with 100 grains of 333F.
My girlfriend shoots this gun without any problem and she hates recoil!
So, there are many reasons why I think the Lyman Trade Rifle is a really wise choice for a good flintlock gun.
My girlfriend shoots this gun without any problem and she hates recoil!
So, there are many reasons why I think the Lyman Trade Rifle is a really wise choice for a good flintlock gun.
Windwalker & Zoar,
Thanks for the comments so far! Windwalker I should have addressed that question to everyone, sorry about that.
Hmm, it would appear that for a factory flintlock rifle the Trade Rifle may very well be the best deal out there. It's funny because you see the GPR and T/C pushed as a "beginners flint" for a factory rifle and this one is cheaper and probably simpler (single trigger) for most hunters, not to mention the ability to use conicals if they feel the need. At less then $50 more then the Traditions Deerhunter or PA Hunter Pellet thingie (the nearest flints in price I have found) the Trade Rifle is a pretty well kept secret.
Sharps54
Thanks for the comments so far! Windwalker I should have addressed that question to everyone, sorry about that.
Hmm, it would appear that for a factory flintlock rifle the Trade Rifle may very well be the best deal out there. It's funny because you see the GPR and T/C pushed as a "beginners flint" for a factory rifle and this one is cheaper and probably simpler (single trigger) for most hunters, not to mention the ability to use conicals if they feel the need. At less then $50 more then the Traditions Deerhunter or PA Hunter Pellet thingie (the nearest flints in price I have found) the Trade Rifle is a pretty well kept secret.
Sharps54
"A Plains Rifle is better for open areas, and not steep topography, branches, swamps, brush: my property is rough. Long guns are cumbersome in the woods"
This is something that one cannot know without trying I would think, I hunt in very heavy cover and steep ground with a 44" barrel and so did most folks a long time ago, I would not let barrel length steer one away from a particular gun, useing a long barreled gun comes quickly like many of the learning curves when changing from modern guns to traditional ML's
"(4) I like the fact it was the preferred rifle by the natives, mountainmen and trappers and other woodsmen."
Could you clarify this for me? does it mean that the Lyman trade rifle with the shorter barrel was the type of gun used by natives and Mt. Men and trappers.
This is something that one cannot know without trying I would think, I hunt in very heavy cover and steep ground with a 44" barrel and so did most folks a long time ago, I would not let barrel length steer one away from a particular gun, useing a long barreled gun comes quickly like many of the learning curves when changing from modern guns to traditional ML's
"(4) I like the fact it was the preferred rifle by the natives, mountainmen and trappers and other woodsmen."
Could you clarify this for me? does it mean that the Lyman trade rifle with the shorter barrel was the type of gun used by natives and Mt. Men and trappers.
tg said:
Good point, I think many folks make too big a deal over long barrels in the brush. The last hog hunt I did in NC was with my 7mm Weatherby Magnum Mark V bolt action with a 26" barrel and I didn't have any issues getting through the woods in June. I think the shorter barrel on the Trade Gun is a knock against it but not a big enough one for me to change my opinion that it seems to be the best "starter" flintlock out there for a right handed shooter.
Sharps54
paulvallandigham
Passed On
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- Jan 9, 2006
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A long gun is no more combersome in the woods when hunting than your own body is. If you can fit through an opening in the brush, so can a long rifle. I hunt with a .50 caliber rifle that has a 30 inch barrel, and is 51 inches long over all. I am over 6 feet, and I have never had a problem moving through dense brush because of my rifle.
I do not move FAST. I do not move OVER brush, OR THROUGH IT. I follow game trails around it. I lift bramble bushes out of my way so they don't catch my equipment or snag my clothing and make noise. I do listen to the squirrels and birds and stop when I hear an alarm call, figuring I have scared something. When the animals settle back down to their normal activities, and ignor me, Then, and ONLY then, do I move again- Slower!
I have found from long experience that if there are two tall trees in any woods or grassy meadow, you will find a game trail leading from one to the other. The trail may bend around some bush or other obstacle, but they are always there. To find my way through new territory in the woods, I just look up to find the tallest trees, and move from one to the other. I do bend over as I move so my silhouette does not alarm game. The big trees allow me to come upright to give my back a chance to rest sore muscles. And, standing next to a tall tree, I am very less conspicuous, and can take a good long look around for parts of deer, laying in beds.
I don't have any problem with anyone hunting with any length barrel they choose. I just don't like hearing someone repeat that old lie about long barrels making it difficult to move through woods and brush as a justification for using a shorter barrel, that may not be capable of delivering the accuracy the hunter needs, or the power he needs. If you understand the limitations of short barreled guns, and hunt with them in mind, you will kill plenty of deer.
ML hunting is all about putting limitations on your hunt voluntarily, to force you to hunt better, get closer, and pick your shots. Its not about getting a few extra days in the woods to try to kill a deer as far away as you can see, because you can legally use some wondergun, with modern bullets, plastic wads, pellets for powder, and scope sites, unless you insist. Your choice. :v :thumbsup:
I do not move FAST. I do not move OVER brush, OR THROUGH IT. I follow game trails around it. I lift bramble bushes out of my way so they don't catch my equipment or snag my clothing and make noise. I do listen to the squirrels and birds and stop when I hear an alarm call, figuring I have scared something. When the animals settle back down to their normal activities, and ignor me, Then, and ONLY then, do I move again- Slower!
I have found from long experience that if there are two tall trees in any woods or grassy meadow, you will find a game trail leading from one to the other. The trail may bend around some bush or other obstacle, but they are always there. To find my way through new territory in the woods, I just look up to find the tallest trees, and move from one to the other. I do bend over as I move so my silhouette does not alarm game. The big trees allow me to come upright to give my back a chance to rest sore muscles. And, standing next to a tall tree, I am very less conspicuous, and can take a good long look around for parts of deer, laying in beds.
I don't have any problem with anyone hunting with any length barrel they choose. I just don't like hearing someone repeat that old lie about long barrels making it difficult to move through woods and brush as a justification for using a shorter barrel, that may not be capable of delivering the accuracy the hunter needs, or the power he needs. If you understand the limitations of short barreled guns, and hunt with them in mind, you will kill plenty of deer.
ML hunting is all about putting limitations on your hunt voluntarily, to force you to hunt better, get closer, and pick your shots. Its not about getting a few extra days in the woods to try to kill a deer as far away as you can see, because you can legally use some wondergun, with modern bullets, plastic wads, pellets for powder, and scope sites, unless you insist. Your choice. :v :thumbsup:
The Trade rifle is indeed a good starter gun,for hunting, it is less than the LGP, as long as historical apperances are not an issue it should work fine, I suspect if one were to shoot both the choice would be different, but you always need another gun so that can come another day.
""(4) I like the fact it was the preferred rifle by the natives, mountainmen and trappers and other woodsmen."
Still waiting for the history lesson on the Lyman trade rifle and its use as described above it appears to be a "fact"...
Still waiting for the history lesson on the Lyman trade rifle and its use as described above it appears to be a "fact"...
Wow, I don't know if I can come up with a "history lesson" I certainly didn't realize I'd be slammed with people demanding history lessons when I hoped for a friendly forum when I joined up... all I can say is I was quoting the various writeups on the Lyman's Trade Rife. That is what I have read and yes THAT is what has been written on the Lyman Trade Rifle.
And as far as a shorter rifle being easier in the woods: that is my opinion. I am not repeating some "old" lie. That is the truth for me and that has been my personal experience. Some may call that an "old lie", but I've carried long guns and I have carried shorter barreled guns in the rough woods and through heavy brush. I'll take a short gun over the long gun. So, that is what I typed. Your experience may be different, but please don't infer that I am lying about this.
I thought that is what we all do here on this forum: give our opinions and in some cases pass along what we have read or learned personally... and we gear our responses to the thread author... (please re-read original thread and you will see he wants a low cost, starter gun)
I own a Lyman's Trade Rifle and I happen to like it. Alot. And it shoots extremely well at distances I call open site distances for ANY gun barrel of any length. While that may offend some people on this forum, it shocks me that it appears I am reprimanded for speaking positively about a rifle and it seems I am attacked for passing along that---in my experience---I think it is better in close cover than a much longer barrled gun. I thought this was a friendly forum. Geeez.
In my opionion an iron sited gun is a 50 yard gun. Sure I may shoot at 75 years if conditions are right but I can't think of where I'd shoot game at 100 yards with standard iron sights. Generally speaking, ANY flintlock rifle with traditional iron sites is really more of a 50 yard gun... So, with my Lyman's Trade Rifle I can shoot very tight groups at iron site distances. I had a 3 shot all-touching group this past Saturday at 50 yards in a FIELD pose, not bench shooting) and quite frankly I'm not going to shoot a 42 inch barrel any better than that! So, why insist in this case that a long barrel is so much more accurate. If it had a scope on it sure but I think most people---and I certainly think the gentlemen I was responding to---will most likely shoot his traditional flintlock rifle with iron sites to around 50 yards, not 100 yards. He wants more of a starter gun and something he can shoot reliably, maybe hunt deer with IN THE WOODS, and not spend a ton of money. The thread is titled "FLINTLOCK on a BUDGET" and if you read his first post he said he wants something with reasonable accuracy, not that he has to poke out the eye of a blue jay at 100 yards... I just don't think he has to spend or wants to spend $1000 to find a good gun nor does he have to buy something with a long, long barrel. You may have a different opinion but don't infer I don't know what I am talking about or that I make stuff up. And please don't insult me by asking me to provide "a history lesson" as if you are some royalty and we are all your plebian subjects.
And as far as a shorter rifle being easier in the woods: that is my opinion. I am not repeating some "old" lie. That is the truth for me and that has been my personal experience. Some may call that an "old lie", but I've carried long guns and I have carried shorter barreled guns in the rough woods and through heavy brush. I'll take a short gun over the long gun. So, that is what I typed. Your experience may be different, but please don't infer that I am lying about this.
I thought that is what we all do here on this forum: give our opinions and in some cases pass along what we have read or learned personally... and we gear our responses to the thread author... (please re-read original thread and you will see he wants a low cost, starter gun)
I own a Lyman's Trade Rifle and I happen to like it. Alot. And it shoots extremely well at distances I call open site distances for ANY gun barrel of any length. While that may offend some people on this forum, it shocks me that it appears I am reprimanded for speaking positively about a rifle and it seems I am attacked for passing along that---in my experience---I think it is better in close cover than a much longer barrled gun. I thought this was a friendly forum. Geeez.
In my opionion an iron sited gun is a 50 yard gun. Sure I may shoot at 75 years if conditions are right but I can't think of where I'd shoot game at 100 yards with standard iron sights. Generally speaking, ANY flintlock rifle with traditional iron sites is really more of a 50 yard gun... So, with my Lyman's Trade Rifle I can shoot very tight groups at iron site distances. I had a 3 shot all-touching group this past Saturday at 50 yards in a FIELD pose, not bench shooting) and quite frankly I'm not going to shoot a 42 inch barrel any better than that! So, why insist in this case that a long barrel is so much more accurate. If it had a scope on it sure but I think most people---and I certainly think the gentlemen I was responding to---will most likely shoot his traditional flintlock rifle with iron sites to around 50 yards, not 100 yards. He wants more of a starter gun and something he can shoot reliably, maybe hunt deer with IN THE WOODS, and not spend a ton of money. The thread is titled "FLINTLOCK on a BUDGET" and if you read his first post he said he wants something with reasonable accuracy, not that he has to poke out the eye of a blue jay at 100 yards... I just don't think he has to spend or wants to spend $1000 to find a good gun nor does he have to buy something with a long, long barrel. You may have a different opinion but don't infer I don't know what I am talking about or that I make stuff up. And please don't insult me by asking me to provide "a history lesson" as if you are some royalty and we are all your plebian subjects.
Although this forum is better then most there will always be personality problems and misunderstandings online. Please don't get discouraged, I for one have enjoyed your jumping in and sharing your experiences since you have joined this forum.
Sharps54
Sharps54
Russ T Frizzen
70 Cal.
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tg--I seem to recall that both Kit Carson and Daniel Boone swore by their Lyman Trade rifles. Crockett had one at the Alamo, too. The Pilgrims woulda loved theirs too if they'da had 'em. I read all this in a sales brochure someplace. I think. Maybe. If they wrote it it must be true--ads never exaggerate...right?
