Flintlock repair

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kmolett

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I have a L&R Queene Anne Flintlock. I recently had my rifle at my in-laws for a day while I was moving out of my house into my new one. When I came to pick up my rifle I found that the half cock position on the rifle was broken. Meaning it will fire in half cock. I took the lock apart and noticed that the sear spring is very weak. Could I just replace the sear spring? I thinking one of the in-law boys cocked the rifle and when it got to half cock and they pulled the trigger and it didn't release the hammer that they panicked and pulled on the trigger until either the sear spring gave way or they busted where the sear spring meets the inside tumbler. Is this possible? I want to make sure that the lock is safe and that I don't have any possibility of having it go off while loaded. I am going to keep a better eye on the rifle from now on. Makes me upset that the brother-in-laws were messing around with it. Any advice would be appreciated.
 
A sear spring only job is to move the sear into the notches on the tumbler,never depend on a spring to hold the sear in the tumbler notches.

Once a lock is cocked you should be able to remove the sear spring and the lock should stay cockecd. IF it doesn't you have a dangerous lock that can go off any time.


Check the tumbler and make shure the half cock notch is not broken. L&R locks have a problem with tempering the internal parts that often results in the tumbler breaking.

If someone let the lock fall from full cock into the half cock notch it could break the half cock notch or the nose of the sear.
 
I think that a picture might be very helpful in answering your question. Most especially a picture of the inside of your lock uncocked, half-and full-cock.
 
The problem isn't the sear spring. The sear spring is only supposed to put enough pressure on the sear to engage the full cock notch. It doesn't hold the sear in either the half cock or full cock position.

I suspect that the half cock notch is broken, which means the tumbler needs to be replaced.

Take a close look at the nose of the sear, where it contacts the half and full cock notches.

If the nose of the sear is damaged, I would replace it too.

Can you post a photo of the tumbler and sear nose, so we can get a better idea of what the problem is?
 
Let me get the camera out. I just realized I have a clubb butt fowler with the same lock in it. I will get that out and compare the 2 and post some pictures. I definately want the lock to be safe. I am going to take the Huron war club to the brother-in-laws or maybe just leave them deep in the woods on the next hunt.
 
Ok Here we go.
DSC02388.jpg
DSC02389.jpg
The sear on the top is the one from my brand new lock and the one on the bottom in both pics is from the lock that is having issues.
 
Here is the sear (from problem lock) in the tumbler (from problem lock.)
DSC02393.jpg


Here is the sear from the good lock in the tumbler from the problem lock.
DSC02392.jpg


Here is a close up on the tumbler on the problem lock.
DSC02390.jpg


finally the tumbler from the good lock for comparison.
DSC02391.jpg
 
I am going to put it all back together, but if memory serves me I could push on the sear at half cock and the hammer would fall. (Lock out of gun.)
 
I think your fly is not moving freely and hanging up on the sear nose. It appears to be galling on the backside. You can see it in the pics. Also try reversing the fly when installing. They most often work better in one direction than the other.
 
Runball, I agree , it looks like it needs polished up some . Im suprised it still has casting fuzz left unpolished .
 
kmolett :

As was mentioned, the sear spring has nothing to do with the half cock or full cock except to push the sear against the outside of the tumbler and into the half cock notch or the full cock notch when its nose gets to either of those positions.

I see nothing wrong with the half cock engagement of the nose of the sear in the picture in post 703122 (top picture). It is fully engaged with the notch and without something breaking it should not come out of the notch until the hammer is further raised.

I also don't see anything wrong with the trouble making sear in post 703119 except there seems to be a little wear where the fly would rub against it.

The little fly in these L&R locks will only work when they are installed one way.
Although you can install them backwards if you do, they will not keep the sear from having problems with the half cock notch.
That is one of the big pluses for the Siler locks IMO. The Siler can't be assembled wrong.

I'm sure you are aware of this but for the folks who are new to locks with flys in them allow me to talk a little about how these flys work and one of the dangers in working with a lock with a fly.

From the "hammer down" position as you raise the hammer the nose of the sear will ride against the outside of the tumbler. When it reaches the half cock position the nose of the sear pushes the fly upward towards the full cock notch and out of the way so that it can enter the half cock notch.

Further raising the hammer causes the nose of the sear to jump over the fly and then back against the surface of the tumbler until it reaches the full cock notch which it then enters (if the sear spring is doing its job).

When the sear is released from the full cock notch it again approaches the fly but this time the fly moves downward blocking off the entry to the half cock notch.
As the sear cannot enter the half cock because the fly is in the way it jumps over the fly and allows the hammer to continue to fall.

Notice that as the hammer is falling from the full cock position, the fly keeps the sear from entering the half cock notch.
With this in mind it becomes obvious that lowering a hammer from the full cock position in an attempt to reengage half cock is impossible if the fly is doing its job correctly.

The only way to get a hammer from full cock to half cock is to lower the hammer down further than the half cock position and then raise it back upwards to half cock.

Some people who are unaware of this have lowered their hammer from full cock to "half cock" and if this is done slowly sometimes rather than just jumping over the fly the nose of the sear will actually "hang up" on the fly.
This can be very dangerous because just the slightest bump or touch of the trigger will cause the sears nose to loose its grip on the fly and to jump over it allowing the hammer to fall.

My suggestion is, with the lock out of the gun run the hammer thru several cycles of "hammer down" to half cock (watching the sear push the fly out of the way and snapping into the half cock notch). Then raise the hammer to full cock again watching the sear push the fly upwards, jumping over it and then snapping into the full cock notch.
Then lower the hammer slowly watching the nose of the sear push the fly down so it covers the half cock notch, then jump over the fly and allow the hammer to fall.

Only when the lock is doing all of this correctly should you reinstall it into the gun.

Remember, if the fly is installed backwards, it will not work correctly so if the lock isn't working correctly, remove the fly, turn it over and then reinstall it.
After reinstalling the fly and the rest of the parts run the lock thru the above cycles again and make sure it is working properly.

Oh, you don't have to install the mainspring to run the lock thru these cycles but the sear spring must be installed to make sure it has enough pressure to keep the nose of the sear against the tumbler at all times except when its jumping over the fly.
 
I put the bad lock back together. The sear would not catch on half cock or full cock. It just kept falling down.I took the fly out of the good lock and put it in the bad lock. The lock went into half cock and full cock. I lowered the hammer down and brought it back up to half cock. This time I pushed on the sear to see if it would give like it did when the original fly was in the lock. It took a lot more pressure, but the pressure on the sear caused the hammer to drop in half cock. NUTS!
 
Can you post pictures of the assembled lock ?

Hammer down

Half cock

Full Cock?

We must be missing something
 
Let me get some taken tonight. I put all the parts from the working lock next to the non-working lock and they all look the same to me. Not a lot of wear and tear on the non-working lock either. This thing is giving me a headache.
 
I wonder if the grease used to lube the locks has anything to do with the problem? I'm kinda grasping at straws, because I don't really see anything wrong with the parts. Try removing the grease and use an oil for lubrication.

Like Runnball said, the problem has gotta be in the fly.

Another thought, back off a half to a full turn on the sear screw. It might be just tight enough to bind, ever so slightly,on the rough casting.

Bubba,
The as cast finish is typical L&R. They cast parts to final size to eliminate machining.
 
Also take a pic of the two flys side by side and from both sides. Don't get them mixed up or you may have two locks that don't function correctly.
 
kmolett
Out of curiosity, how tight is the screw that holds the sear to the lock?

Some people tend to overtighten this screw and if they do so the sear will be unable to rotate freely.

This screw should be lightly tightened and then backed off about 3/4 of a turn. The sear should be easily moved with just a slight push with your finger.

That is about the only thing left that could explain why the sear is not entering the half cock notch. :hmm:
 
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