Flintlock Snobbery

[Leadball loader]

I remember a Disney show about mountain men where a older trapper shows a young newcomer that he can start a fire with his flintlock when the new comer only has a caplock gun and can't strike a spark. Don't remember the name of the show but the old trapper was Brian Keith I think.
Flint guns were part of the fur trapping era.

 

[tenngun]

First, let me state that I have a Flintlock and enjoy shooting it on a very regular basis. It's not high priced, has its own problems, and yet I have my fun with it. Being more interested in the fur trade then in the Revolutionary war period as far as firearms used, I did believe that the trappers probably carried a lot of flintlocks. Apparently, that might not be so. I also subscribe to a magazine called The Backwoodsman. The last one, (July August), had an interesting article entitled, so just what gun did the mountain men carry? Written by David Langerman. From this very interesting article I learned a few things, mainly the most of the fur trappers probably carried percussion's. As far as research goes, from start to finish, the Hawken rifles were percussion. It also mentions that caps cost $.80 per thousand and were also waterproof. One of the things mentioned, was that by 1820, Cap lock rifles had become quite popular and there was a growing industry that converted flintlocks into cap locks. We do know the first fur trade rendezvous was held in 1825. I'm sure there were flintlocks present, but apparently there was a growing usage of cap locks.
Perhaps others get this same magazine, it's quite an interesting article. If nothing else it makes for a good discussion.
Squint

Depends on the time frame of the ‘Western’ fur trade.
when did it start? In 05 Coulter was hired to leave the L&C exposition to act as a guide for trappers. Lisa would hire him in ‘07. Astor would work an exposition in ‘10.
Ashley/Henry would partner up in ‘21 sending an exposition out in ‘22. The first ‘voo in ‘25.
Ledger show flints and flintlocks as the guns sent to ‘voo.
Ledgers also show lots of flints sent west, and even flints and flinters aboard the steam ship Arabia in ‘59.
Post 1830 I would bet a majority of guns sold and carried were flinters, being replaced between 30 and 40.
Smith had a percussion gun when he died in ‘31. But he was no longer a trapper but a man fresh from Saint Louis with a wagon full of gear and trade goods.

 

[user 36911]

Flintlock longrifles were the majority for the fur trade era. Not many Hawkens like some would have you believe.

 

[tenngun]

Most of the rifles taken to rendezvous by the fur companies were Pennsyvlania produced. Henry, Derringer, and later Leman, made many. J and S Hawkins did get to ‘voo but not in as great a number as Pennsyvlania made guns, and then after ‘30-35.
If’n I was going to do mountiany man again my first choice would be a Henry ‘English’ pattern rifle. It’s my opinion, can’t prove, that Henry was trying to make a American civilian styled Baker Rifle, based on butt shape, patch box and check plate.

 

[user 36911]

Yes, I switched from Hawken style guns to my present Isaac Haines longrifle in .54. A pleasant gun to shoot and hunt. A 38" swamped barrel and the gun only weighs 7 lbs 11oz. I should have switched a long time ago.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Yes, I switched from Hawken style guns to my present Isaac Haines longrifle in .54. A pleasant gun to shoot and hunt. A 38" swamped barrel and the gun only weighs 7 lbs 11oz. I should have switched a long time ago.

No need to decide one or the other when you can have both!!!
On a bit lighter budget, I went with the Frontier Flintlock as my choice. Rugged and very dependable. I am not afraid of putting it in the cedar and mesquite jungles of the Texas hill country. If I had spent the money for something like the the I.H. I would likely not take it into the brush. I do have a few very nice pieces but they stay in the safe and get used at the range where the trees don't bite and scratch expensive investments. Until you have hunted thick hill country brush, you can't envision what some of the places are like.....

 

[user 36911]

I would never buy a gun if I didn't plan to hunt with it. That's what it was made to do. I feel the same way about bamboo fly rods.

You're right i've never seen where you hunt but I don't have to hunt there either. I don't bang up guns where I hunt. I live where I do on purpose. I researched it before moving here. I wanted good hunting and fly fishing.

 

[Crow-Feather]

I have a flinter, a T/C early kit with a very heavy 45 caliber barrel. It fires at the touch of the trigger. What slows me down now is the cost of shooting the rifle. Flints are becoming very spensive. And there isn't any flint on the ground in Idaho.

 

[user 36911]

I have a flinter, a T/C early kit with a very heavy 45 caliber barrel. It fires at the touch of the trigger. What slows me down now is the cost of shooting the rifle. Flints are becoming very spensive. And there isn't any flint on the ground in Idaho.

I'm not sure where you buy your flints? I buy English flints at TOW for $22 for a dozen. I can get 50-60 shots from a flint. Would you call that expensive?

 

[Crow-Feather]

I'm not sure where you buy your flints? I buy English flints at TOW for $22 for a dozen. I can get 50-60 shots from a flint. Would you call that expensive?

I will have to check that out. Thank you

 

[Griz44Mag]

I have a flinter, a T/C early kit with a very heavy 45 caliber barrel. It fires at the touch of the trigger. What slows me down now is the cost of shooting the rifle. Flints are becoming very spensive. And there isn't any flint on the ground in Idaho.

While checking, take a look at Heritage Products. Great flints, i especially like the French amber. In some guns I get 50-60 shots on a flint and some only 30-40. The cost for the flints, when compared to percussion caps - not that much more, and still a bargain. There are lots of flint in many places in Texas, but I have not mastered napping - yet. I have made some nice piles of broken rocks though...

 

[Crow-Feather]

While checking, take a look at Heritage Products. Great flints, i especially like the French amber. In some guns I get 50-60 shots on a flint and some only 30-40. The cost for the flints, when compared to percussion caps - not that much more, and still a bargain. There are lots of flint in many places in Texas, but I have not mastered napping - yet. I have made some nice piles of broken rocks though...

Back in my day, they called that "hard labor" Making small rocks outta big ones.

 

[user 36911]

Back in my day, they called that "hard labor" Making small rocks outta big ones.

It takes a special kind of feel to make flints. I sure don't have it and buy mine.

 

[Darkhorse]

The first flinter I ever owned was a Lyman GPR and I hated it. Thing wouldn't go off half the time at best. But I can be clever with mechanisms and my trade was in Tool and Die. So by the time I sold it the thing was shooting pretty good.
Some years later I was wanting to take another trip for elk but this time with a blackpowder flintlock. So I ordered a Isacc Haines .54 from TOW because I wanted premium parts. It came out pretty good, maybe a little too much wood in a few places but all in all, pretty good. What it lacks in beauty it makes up for in accuracy.
5 years later I built a .40 Isaac Haines and made it fit me as close as possible to my .54 IH, but this one was meant to be a turkey rifle from the git go. This one looks much better.
Now some time has passed since I built those 2 rifles. I can hardly see anymore and I've got deteriorating joints. So I have to learn to shoot all over again every year or so. But I do OK.
In all those years since I fired my first shot with a flintlock I have not shot one shot with a capgun. Just no interest in that anymore.
The flintlock mechanism allows me to fine tune the lock for smoothness and speed and to mesh the triggers and stock into a finer weapon. For me that is.
But do I look down on capguns? Hmmmmmm..... I've never been one to feel like that.
But on this subject.....
Maybe just a little.

 

[bradly_tx]

Seriously, though. If God had wanted us to shoot caplocks, he’d of left them all over the ground (as he did gun flints).

Honestly I can’t remember how many times I’ve read of some switching to flintlocks and never shooting a cap gun again. Can’t say I’ve heard too much of the opposite. Flintlocks take a special level of commitment and skill to shoot and service over percussion guns. The guys that own and shoot flints have every right to feel how they do, without a doubt they are superior to the caplocks in terms of fun and satisfaction that caplocks will never attain, and this is coming from someone who has owned and shot caplocks for years.

B.S.

 

[bradly_tx]

When people ask me about my Flintlock preference in shooting I just tell them that "If you can shoot a Flintlock offhand, you can shoot anything".

 

[bradly_tx]

Life long capper

 

[tenngun]

Life long capper

Well I’ll rib you for shooting nipple huggers, and you can rub me back for rock in the lock. That’s ok, it’s just ribbing.
You gots to enjoy what your shooting.
Your welcome in my camp any day. I just ask you cover up your monstrous lock with a rag or something so it doesn’t scare the children.

 

[bradly_tx]

Great! Let's interject oppression of women more frequently on a website dedicated to Muzzle Loading.

WHAT THE HECK?!?!

 

[MSW]

just for the record, i have no intention in being dragged into the 19th (or any other) century

additionally, and for the record, i do not 'oppress' women, or other minorities: they are welcome to shoot flintlocks at any time. If uninitiated i will show them the way, and then they can thus join the proud ranks of the cultured, sophisticated, erudite, well spoken, well read, articulate, genteel and otherwise all 'round COOL folks. or (if they prefer, for some inexplicable and obscure reason) they can wander around and whack little bits of copper in their rifles, and spend their range time wandering around, scattering little bits of copper caps on the ground, and wondering while nobody wants to sit next to them on the bus.

I'm sure that such folks mean well ... no doubt they love their children, pay their taxes, and obey the speed limit, but, well ... they won't or can't shoot proper rifles... this is a great pity.