Flintlock Snobbery

[tenngun]

We are talking about flint lock snobbery, albeit a bit tongue in cheek.

No offense taken @bradly_tx. but if it wasn't for soldiers dressed like that during the French and Indian War, you would chasser dans les bois d'écureuil de l'est du Texas.

We weren't hunting squirrels. However based on my experience, squirrels aren't overly concerned with color and shot works just fine in a Long Land Pattern King's Musket.

Well we can talk of Alexander, Hector and Hercules, but them funny dressed fellers did save us from having to parle vous.
Howsomever I’m thinking in Tejas they’d ah still be speakin’ Spanish

 

[Grenadier1758]

Huh!

If it hadn't been for the support of British regular soldiers during the French and Indian War, everyone west of the Appalachian Mountains would be speaking French or Spanish and hunting d'equireuil not squirrels in the East Texas woods. Thanks @tenngun, for reminding me that Tejas would have been Spanish territory.

Shooting a flintlock is an art form. The percussion cap and lock system is the triumph of technology over art. For the military having a lock that is easier to produce and not as prone to tuning and maintenance is a boon and can easily be understood as to why the percussion lock replaced the flintlock. Its the art I appreciate.

 

[BadDaditood]

I shoot a flintlock for the challenge. Not because I think it's superior. I make everything in my hunt as hard as possible to give the game a chance to beat me. I consider it part of fair chase.

Easier is not always better for some of us.

Have you tried a pointy stick?

 

[user 36911]

Have you tried a pointy stick?

Funny you should say that. My Lakota friend has hunted bison with a spear and got one riding a horse next to the running bison. He's done the same thing with a longbow. He uses a longbow for our elk hunt. A flintlock is as primitive as I want to get at my age. I did use a longbow when I was younger.

 

[tenngun]

It’s a good point. I mean a half a dozen of us could surround a deer head, grab the sickest, oldest or youngest of the heard and wrestle to the ground and brain it with rocks. Or chase a heard off a cliff, check out flood areas for dead to process, maybe watch for buzzards and grab the dead.
Archers hunt on their own now like little gun shooters, through out history most archery hunters did so as a group.
The flintlock was really the first gun that that gave the common Joe the ability to go out and hunt on his own with a quickly learned skill.
The spread of flintlock with the French, Dutch and British hands made the courier de bois, and long hunters possible. I THINK the failure of putting such guns in ‘peon’s’ hands in Spanish America limited the ability of Spain to expand in to wild lands where there wasn’t a pre existing civilization to take over. So Texas, much of Florida, Arizona and Nevada/Colorado/Oklahoma areas blocked spanish advancement.

 

[user 36911]

It’s a good point. I mean a half a dozen of us could surround a deer head, grab the sickest, oldest or youngest of the heard and wrestle to the ground and brain it with rocks. Or chase a heard off a cliff, check out flood areas for dead to process, maybe watch for buzzards and grab the dead.
Archers hunt on their own now like little gun shooters, through out history most archery hunters did so as a group.
The flintlock was really the first gun that that gave the common Joe the ability to go out and hunt on his own with a quickly learned skill.
The spread of flintlock with the French, Dutch and British hands made the courier de bois, and long hunters possible. I THINK the failure of putting such guns in ‘peon’s’ hands in Spanish America limited the ability of Spain to expand in to wild lands where there wasn’t a pre existing civilization to take over. So Texas, much of Florida, Arizona and Nevada/Colorado/Oklahoma areas blocked spanish advancement.

Running a herd of bison off the cliff was done all the time by the Indians. The women would be at the bottom and when the bison landed they would run up to them and slit their throat. Then they did all the skinning and butchering. All the braves did was kill the bison. Mostly by riding next to them and shooting them but sometimes off a cliff if one was nearby.

Try and get white women to do that and see how far it gets you.

 

[tenngun]

My wife did help me work up a deer when we first got married and my first chicken time when we got married. After that butchering was my job.

 

[user 36911]

Yes, but that was your wife. Not the case with most of the Indian women.

 

[mooman76]

I'm sure they knew if they didn't help, they didn't eat.

 

[Howard Pippin]

Depends on the time frame of the ‘Western’ fur trade.
when did it start? In 05 Coulter was hired to leave the L&C exposition to act as a guide for trappers. Lisa would hire him in ‘07. Astor would work an exposition in ‘10.
Ashley/Henry would partner up in ‘21 sending an exposition out in ‘22. The first ‘voo in ‘25.
Ledger show flints and flintlocks as the guns sent to ‘voo.
Ledgers also show lots of flints sent west, and even flints and flinters aboard the steam ship Arabia in ‘59.
Post 1830 I would bet a majority of guns sold and carried were flinters, being replaced between 30 and 40.
Smith had a percussion gun when he died in ‘31. But he was no longer a trapper but a man fresh from Saint Louis with a wagon full of gear and trade goods.

I suppose this raises the question, did any of them carry a Hawkens? I've been led to believe that the fur trade was most active along with buffalo hunters later than that. I realize there were trapping Beaver on the Missouri and Yellowstone not long after Lewis and Clark, though I don't believe much before that. The Beaver felt hat kind of ran its course by 1840 – 50.
Squint

 

[Howard Pippin]

B.S.

I guess I'm one of the few who switched from flintlocks to cap Locks hunting. I don't need to prove That the cap lock is more dependable under most conditions and the availability of caps is still pretty good. My flintlock produces many hours of pleasurable shooting, especially in competition when I can do as good as those with cap Locks. I have noticed a certain amount of snobbery by some that shoot flintlocks, but the same people are kind of that way about pickups, tents, and clothing.
Squint

 

[user 36911]

A tent snob? That's a new one for me.

I use what I like and don't give a lick what others use.

 

[Shooter1]

I love flintlocks, fly rods, long bows, hickory smoked ribs, and Kentucky whiskey.


but I gots no problem with 06's, zebcos, xbows, big mac's, and bud light.





this is America, let your freak flag fly!

All but the bud light, but to each his own in our group. Barrel aged stout for me.

 

[William Sublette]

All but the bud light, but to each his own in our group. Barrel aged stout for me.

Theres one in every crowd.

 

[Treestalker]

Well we can talk of Alexander, Hector and Hercules, but them funny dressed fellers did save us from having to parle vous.
Howsomever I’m thinking in Tejas they’d ah still be speakin’ Spanish

!Por Que Si!

 

[tenngun]

I suppose this raises the question, did any of them carry a Hawkens? I've been led to believe that the fur trade was most active along with buffalo hunters later than that. I realize there were trapping Beaver on the Missouri and Yellowstone not long after Lewis and Clark, though I don't believe much before that. The Beaver felt hat kind of ran its course by 1840 – 50.
Squint

Yes, by 1830 Rocky Mountain fur were sending some Hawkens to rendezvous. By 40 it represented about 10% of the rifles RMF was sending to ‘voo.
But yes it was the plainsmen gun instead of the mountain man’s choice.
Of course our concept of them mountain man period is arbitrary and had little to do wIth mountain men. The fellow that went trapping in 35 didn’t think him self less then a mountain man in 45 guiding wagon trains, or in 55 scouting for the army.
So if he had a Derringer in 35 a Hawken after ‘42 it was still the mountain man’s choice.
Just not the gun that most carried during the rendezvous period.

 

[rdane]

I used to shoot a lot of competition. Seems caplocks had more trouble on the firing line than flint. I shot both and settled on flint.

 

[user 36911]

The question of the Hawken wasn't so much .......were they available......... as much as who could afford one.

If you want to use a Hawken to re-enact the fur trade era. You're not wrong. It wasn't what the majority used but it was used. So, have fun with it.

 

[Essayons!]

So flint guns don’t fail? I’m pretty sure they as much if not more!

Just because caps were invented doesn't mean they were readily available, especially on the frontier. Flint was always available and still functioned if one's supply got wet. For example I saw pictures from a show that were of these TV screens-flat! One could mount it on the wall! This was 1978. Commonplace now. Invention does not equal availability.

 

[tenngun]

True enough and lots of flint would continue west. It is important that we keep that in mind.
If we had a time machine to take us back to 1839 rendezvous I would bet most guns seen, maybe as high as 80% would be flint. Caps were sent west at MM times in pretty great numbers.
Smith had a three cap guns on him when he died in 31. Meek recorded a fight with indians where it was wet, and another man kept popping caps, without his gun going off.
I ‘think’ I would have wanted a flinter then but caps were to be had. I don’t know if they saw supply in the same way we do.