Flintlock Snobbery

[Bob McBride]

Not much oppressing of women going on around here. As a matter of fact, they mostly seem pretty exalted. Good for them.

 

[Enfield58]

just for the record, i have no intention in being dragged into the 19th (or any other) century

additionally, and for the record, i do not 'oppress' women, or other minorities: they are welcome to shoot flintlocks at any time. If uninitiated i will show them the way, and then they can thus join the proud ranks of the cultured, sophisticated, erudite, well spoken, well read, articulate, genteel and otherwise all 'round COOL folks. or (if they prefer, for some inexplicable and obscure reason) they can wander around and whack little bits of copper in their rifles, and spend their range time wandering around, scattering little bits of copper caps on the ground, and wondering while nobody wants to sit next to them on the bus.

I'm sure that such folks mean well ... no doubt they love their children, pay their taxes, and obey the speed limit, but, well ... they won't or can't shoot proper rifles... this is a great pity.

 

[Heelerau]

I found out years ago, if you can shoot well with a flintlock, you will find shooting more modern arms even easier . I love the challenge of shooting well with a flintlock, but I will sometimes choose something else(cap lock, modern rifle) if I feel I need to.

 

[bradly_tx]

Do these men look as if they'd use anything but Hand knapped black English Flint.

First Royal Regiment of Foot Grenadiers.

View attachment 29542

Nothing personal, but if that’s what it takes to be a flinter... Pass the caps. That garb ain’t gonna cut in the squirrel woods of East Texas!

 

[bradly_tx]

I've mentioned it here before. I built a CVA percussion Kentucky rifle in school when I was 14. It was my only gun for years. There was no internet, no television signal, we lived in the sticks. I hunted with it daily, we ate lots of game it provided.

When I was about 16 my dad took me to a gun show an hour away. There was a local group of black powder shooters that were into period dress and gear. They were dressed in skins, posing for pictures, and had set up a table of their finest equipment.

I spend several minutes drooling over their fine accoutrements on the table when I proudly said I shot black powder and had built a Kentucky rifle. The ringleader, a huge man as big as a tree, snarled back, "What school is your Kentucky?" I didn't understand him, but told him it was a CVA.

He proceeded to denounce the gun, my gear, and my skills to assemble a "proper muzzleloader " in the most rough terms. I told him of the game I had shot and he all but called me a liar.

I turned away, completely dejected and humiliated, and found my dad. After telling him about what had happened, my dad told me that some people were just a$$h@£€$, and to ignore them.

At the time I had bought a Foxfire book and was gathering hides to make myself some buckskins to be like those guys.
I gave them away. If I'd had another gun I may have stopped shooting black powder.

Thankfully, I didn't.

 

[user 36911]

I found out years ago, if you can shoot well with a flintlock, you will find shooting more modern arms even easier . I love the challenge of shooting well with a flintlock, but I will sometimes choose something else(cap lock, modern rifle) if I feel I need to.

Why would you ever need to shoot a modern rifle?

 

[jdw276]

View attachment 37607

Both of them shootin
Left handed flinters? Yeppee! Good men!

 

[Enfield58]

Both of them shootin
Left handed flinters? Yeppee! Good men!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Do these men look as if they'd use anything but Hand knapped black English Flint.

First Royal Regiment of Foot Grenadiers.

View attachment 29542

Nothing personal, but if that’s what it takes to be a flinter... Pass the caps. That garb ain’t gonna cut in the squirrel woods of East Texas!

We are talking about flint lock snobbery, albeit a bit tongue in cheek.

No offense taken @bradly_tx. but if it wasn't for soldiers dressed like that during the French and Indian War, you would chasser dans les bois d'écureuil de l'est du Texas.

We weren't hunting squirrels. However based on my experience, squirrels aren't overly concerned with color and shot works just fine in a Long Land Pattern King's Musket.

 

[Heelerau]

Why would you ever need to shoot a modern rifle?

I do know what you mean !!! Cheers.

 

[bradly_tx]

We are talking about flint lock snobbery, albeit a bit tongue in cheek.

No offense taken @bradly_tx. but if it wasn't for soldiers dressed like that during the French and Indian War, you would chasser dans les bois d'écureuil de l'est du Texas.

We weren't hunting squirrels. However based on my experience, squirrels aren't overly concerned with color and shot works just fine in a Long Land Pattern King's Musket.

Huh!

 

[bradly_tx]

Personal enjoyment and satisfaction aside, it is interesting and noteworthy that the percussion system almost completely replaced the flintlock in the entire world’s military and civilian arms in only a few decades.

It seems all the world’s major militaries and most civilian gunmakers were eager to abandon the flintlock system. How, in gods name, did all of this happen if their weren’t merits to the percussion system?

Back then, people used muzzleloaders “for real”. They weren’t weekend play things for old retired guys. They were the means to provide food for the family, personal protection, and were weapons of war. When the innovation of the percussion cap came about, its benefits MUST have been observed and respected otherwise we wouldn’t have tons of percussion conversions of earlier flintlock rifles and muskets (both civilian and military) or that after about 1840, virtually ALL NEW GUNS IN THE WORLD were not using flintlocks, they were using caplocks.

Again, people back then new muzzleloaders and used them for deadly serious purposes. I am all for flintlocks nowadays and they are quaint and dynamic, fascinating and romantic. BUT some folks just seem to think they are mechanically superior to caplocks and I just do not think this is true.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a percussion rifle or the people that shoot them. I’ll bet if some flintlock snobs went back in a time machine to say 1850 and repeated some of the reasons they think flintlocks are so superior to the old gunsmiths they would have laughed in their face and then probably offered them a box of old, obsolete flintlock parts for cheap.

Then we’ll here “well flintlocks were used for 300 years, and caplocks only about 40”. The bow and arrow had been used for about 60,000 years before the first flintlock weapon was ever built. So then, wouldn’t that make the bow and arrow superior? It’s been used FAR longer of course!

Again, flintlocks are FUN and really nifty. But yes, I’ve personally experienced snobbery against caplocks too and agree it can be annoying for sure. I can think of just as many comebacks in support of caplocks to counter the silly arguments and positions of flintlock “purists” (whatever that means). Some flintlock elitists only serve to disenfranchise new shooters to the hobby and further reinforce the stereotype of crotchety eccentric that is doing this sport absolutely no favors to attract new, younger members.

A good percussion Hawken or Ohio rifle is every bit as interesting and beautiful as a flintlock. They’ve brought me much joy and I love a good caplock as much as any flintlock I’ve ever fired. They have just as much “soul” as a flintlock and are an important part of muzzleloading history.

I like ‘em just fine, thanks.

Dang, I wish I wrote that! Great job, my feelings exactly. Thank you

 

[bradly_tx]

many mountain men used flintlocks as they didnt fail in tight situations. some mountain men died because their percussion rifle failed in a tight situations.

So flint guns don’t fail? I’m pretty sure they as much if not more!

 

[bradly_tx]

K

I attended a Mel Hankla lecture at the Filson club in Lou. KY. Mr. Hankla said something that I thought was odd at first, when I was able to mull it over for a day or two, it made sense. When the cap system came out there was a rush to convert, of course. With in the first year over 90% were converted back to flints. It you have shot competition and hunted with both the cap and flint, think about it and it will make sense to you also.

i don’t get it. Please explain.

 

[bradly_tx]

Gentlemen shoot flintlocks.

And country folk shoot anything!

 

[bradly_tx]

I would never buy a gun if I didn't plan to hunt with it. That's what it was made to do. I feel the same way about bamboo fly rods.

You're right i've never seen where you hunt but I don't have to hunt there either. I don't bang up guns where I hunt. I live where I do on purpose. I researched it before moving here. I wanted good hunting and fly fishing.

What ever.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Back in “them days”, a rifle was often for more than just hunting.

Was used for self defense as well, from man or bead, and when safety and time permitted, recreational shooting competitions for prizes among local shooters was also a usage.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

*Meant to say BEAST not BEAD. Beads are generally not so dangerous.

 

[jdw276]

View attachment 37616

Wait, what just happened? Makers mark kick in somehow? I swear that guy pointing with the brimless hat was on the other side. How did they move so fast?

 

[user 36911]

I shoot a flintlock for the challenge. Not because I think it's superior. I make everything in my hunt as hard as possible to give the game a chance to beat me. I consider it part of fair chase.

Easier is not always better for some of us.