Flintlock Snobbery

[Zonie]

Joseph Meek's caplock rifle.

 

[rdlowe]

That looks a lot like something off the rack at Cabela’s or wherever.

 

[smo]

Its got a Traditions split stock... lol

 

[Charlie Smith]

Mr Lowe, If it did come off the rack at Cabela's would that be bad? Cabela's does have some nice rifles. Maybe NOT to your level, however if we get a guy into the sport, it that all bad? Then he can learn and upgrade in the near future.

I'm 73 and always loved history! I got started with historical recreation group. Specifically, French and Indian period. My first rifle was a Great Plains Rifle, .54 flinter. I then upgraded to a Caywood custom, .62 Wilson's trade musket. Due to health problems, I have had to step aside for several years and just now feeling well enough to get the juices going again! Best wishes to all!
Kind Regards,
Charlie

 

[rdlowe]

Mr Lowe, If it did come off the rack at Cabela's would that be bad?

Of course not. I made the comment because the rifle reminded my of a Cabelas/ TC Hawken. It wasn’t a judgement of quality or value.

 

[gustrolland]

Dang, I wish I wrote that! Great job, my feelings exactly. Thank you

I started with a cap lock, changed to flint and like both. But I think I'm more interested in flinters over all. But I've been more lucky in hunting with a flintlock, and maybe that is just the way the cards played out. Just enjoy what you want to use and have fun.

 

[1853enfield]

I dont know a lot about being a snob but i have taught a few new words to those around me when first shooting a flint. I didnt have many mis fires but i must admit i used foul language when i flinched from the spark.. it took me a while to not think of the fire and hole the rifle still at least till the ball exited the barrel. About all the powder i use is enough to go through both sides of a sheet of paper at whatever range i am shooting at, and most of the time the range is around 25 yards. With a .395 ball i have been using around 35 to 40 gr. of 3f and priming with 4f. joe in centeral washington ( state not dc )

 

[user 36911]

I think a flintlock is more dependable. Let me explain.

A flintlock can fail to fire but it's always from user error. The powder in pan or main charge was wet. The flint needed sharpening or replacement. Maybe just adjusted. The touch-hole was clogged. The frizzen wasn't clean or too soft. The powder in the pan wasn't the proper amount. While hunting the pan powder leaked out. The lock is cheap with bad geometry and should be replaced. All of these problems can be fixed by the user. If they are a flintlock will fire every time.

A caplock can also fail due to user error. A clogged nipple. Wet powder. Poor cap to nipple fit that takes multiple strikes to fire. Poor fit of cap and it falls off. Weak hammer spring that won't fire off the cap. This is tied into cap fit too.

The list for the caplock is much smaller and the reason that shooters like them. However, the caplock can fail from one problem that the user has no control over. A bad cap. You can't always tell it's bad by looking at it. Sometimes you can see the problem but few users will inspect every cap to notice it. Especially, if a capper is used. I suspect bad caps might have been a bigger problem in the fur trade era than now but it can still happen now. Moisture can also cause a cap to not fire.

Even when both the flintlock user and caplock user do everything right. It's only the caplock that can still fail due to the cap itself.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Our sport attracts those of us who like the history, the challenge and both. That is why I started shooting front stuffers 45 years ago and it still holds true today. I believe a flintlock just adds another layer to the history and challenge. There is much to be said for loading an old or replica gun from the front with powder, patch and ball/bullet. Cap or flinter both offer it but at different levels. If our priorities were efficiency we would be using the latest whizz bang black toy.

 

[smo]

I think a flintlock is more dependable. Let me explain.

A flintlock can fail to fire but it's always from user error. The powder in pan or main charge was wet. The flint needed sharpening or replacement. Maybe just adjusted. The touch-hole was clogged. The frizzen wasn't clean or too soft. The powder in the pan wasn't the proper amount. While hunting the pan powder leaked out. The lock is cheap with bad geometry and should be replaced. All of these problems can be fixed by the user. If they are a flintlock will fire every time.

A caplock can also fail due to user error. A clogged nipple. Wet powder. Poor cap to nipple fit that takes multiple strikes to fire. Poor fit of cap and it falls off. Weak hammer spring that won't fire off the cap. This is tied into cap fit too.

The list for the caplock is much smaller and the reason that shooters like them. However, the caplock can fail from one problem that the user has no control over. A bad cap. You can't always tell it's bad by looking at it. Sometimes you can see the problem but few users will inspect every cap to notice it. Especially, if a capper is used. I suspect bad caps might have been a bigger problem in the fur trade era than now but it can still happen now. Moisture can also cause a cap to not fire.

Even when both the flintlock user and caplock user do everything right. It's only the caplock that can still fail due to the cap itself.

I've had flint shatter on the first throw of the cock as well...

But I'll take my chances .... Give me a flint gun anyday.

 

[Howard Pippin]

A tent snob? That's a new one for me.

I use what I like and don't give a lick what others use.

I was afraid my comments about Flintlock snobbery could be used out of context, though I didn't mean it that way. When I said people that tend to be snobs about flintlocks are also the type of person that can be snobs about anything or everything. Their rangefinder, camper, pickup or tent is believed by them to be a mite superior to what you have, most of the time based on price. By far, the majority of replies I see on here are not snobbish, only personal preference. Sometimes we feel like we should explain the reason that we do what we do, and sometimes those reasons are very valid.
Squint

 

[Nazgul58]

Try using a kayak in a group. I am an old fat guy that spends 200 hours every summer in my kayak, it only cost $400 new. If yours doesn't cost $2500 or up they won't talk to you. That is why I like the solitude.

Have used my flintlock rifle or pistol to introduce several to the history and firing. Had my 9 year old grandson shooting my Charleville pistol repro recently.

Don

 

[Mike Payne]

I started out shooting a caplock in the mid 70s.A friend let me shoot his flinter it was all over I have been a rocklock nut ever since! I have built flinters for my two sons they both love shooting them. My oldest son also enjoys collecting and shooting WW2 rifles and side arms. I don't guess I can pick on him to much for that.

 

[user 36911]

I've had flint shatter on the first throw of the cock as well...

But I'll take my chances .... Give me a flint gun anyday.

That would still be user error. A flint should be tested many times before using it for a load.

 

[smo]

Still no guarantee... s_ !t happens....

I always test a flint for spark after it is installed prior to loading., common sense to me.
I'm not able to predict when the rocks gonna break,it's much the same as inspecting a cap...

It may look good, but still can be a dud....

I don't consider it user error, just the way it is.

 

[user 36911]

You have bad luck. I've never broken a flint after i've tested it and said it's good to use. A good lock and flints probably help. I wouldn't use a flintlock if I thought it was going to let me down when I need it the most. I'd go back to a Hawken and RSW musket caps. I never had that combo fail but I haven't had a flintlock fail either.

 

[smo]

I contributed it too bad flints...

They were French Amber, I've never had a Black English shatter that I can recall..

I couldn't comment on the musket caps, I never fired one.

 

[user 36911]

I have no experience with the amber flints. I'm a fan of Tom Fullers English flints. They seem very reliable.

The RSW caps were very reliable for me. Musket or #11. That's the past though. I'll never go back to a caplock.

 

[Howard Pippin]

I have no experience with the amber flints. I'm a fan of Tom Fullers English flints. They seem very reliable.

The RSW caps were very reliable for me. Musket or #11. That's the past though. I'll never go back to a caplock.

I sort of believed that same thing after I bought my Flintlock, but conditions change, I discovered after I turned 80, that darn Flintlock got a lot heavier to carry when I was hunting and I wasn't near as nimble at loading the pan and changing flints with stiff fingers and my ability to drop things has become one of my new phases. Then I discovered a five and three-quarter pound caplock with a 24 inch barrel, 50 caliber and a small recoil pad. True I lose a few caps out of my capper that I can't find or even look for, but the expenses is negligible, I carry the darn thing with a cap on the nipple, after I enter my hunting area, with a hard piece of leather on top of the cap tied to the trigger guard with a weight on it and hammer down, so when I do cock the hammer it falls off. I realize hunting in brush could pull the hammer back and accidentally discharge, but I tried pulling it just slightly, and then let go, and it wouldn't fire. Now I'm too darn old to be fighting the brush so I find an easier path. What worked for me probably won't work for anybody else. I think that's the nicest thing about this website. I picked up many tricks before I ever become a supporting member or ever said anything. Now that I got older, seems like I have an answer for everything but they aren't often right.
Squint

 

[user 36911]

Howard.......The problem I have with light guns is the recoil. That bothers me more than the gun weight and i'm crawling around the Colorado Rockies at 11,000ft. My Isaac Haines has a 38" swamped barrel which helps me see the front sight better. My vision is horrible and I enjoy still hunting in close. Which works out with my lousy vision. The gun only weighs 7lbs 11oz. It's heavy enough to help with recoil but not too heavy to carry. I'm 77, so i'm getting close to you. I have a Lakota friend and we hunt elk together. He hauls out the meat for me and I give him half of it. He likes getting the meat and I enjoy being able to continue to elk hunt.

It seems we all need to make adjustments when we get old. It sure beats not hunting.