Foot Pounds

[cannonball1]

Tell us more about that 500 grain .45 caliber bullet.

I'd like to take a look at it.

Where did you find it?

My cast 250 grain .454 caliber bullets are .675 long. That means your 500 grain bullet would have to be 1.35 inches long.

Thanks.

Here it is without the paper patch.. 45 caliber 500 grain and you are right on the length. Some of you wonder about it as if it is very unusual. This weight and heavier are what the biggest share of the top long-distant shooters use. I just don't happen to be one of them. Just like to think I am, just not. Interesting information from all of you. I am still a Doubting Thomas. I know an engineer who likes to shoot more than anybody I know. Guess I may have to run this by him. Some of you may have technical experience and certainly you may be right. I sure would like to know if that is the case or how you base your information.

 

[64Springer]

^^^WOW^^^

300 grains hurts.

I would need a pacifier and a blankie before I sent a 500 grainer down range.

 

[cannonball1]

Don, Here is what your article says and he is not talking about BP either:

" Does a bullet's rifling marks impact it's flight? It's an interesting question, and one I hadn't spent much time thinking about until recently. But it seems reasonable to ASSUME it might, given how small changes to a bullet's design can significantly affect the way it flies through the air. A change to boat tail angle or meplat diameter can demonstrably change a bullet's ballistic coefficient, for example.

But rifling? It's so shallow. Does it really matter? It turns out the answer is yes, but only a little bit, and not enough to care about."

Maybe it doesn't make much difference or just maybe no one has really studied the subject. I have got to admit I had a Browning un-mentionable of a certain caliber that just hammered me unmerciably(wrong spelling). I shot another gun of the same caliber and action later and found all guns are not created with the same "kick". Even though you think everything is equal. I was once told when using "assume" to not use it. When you do you are jeopardy of making an, "ass out of you or me"(abreviation of assume).

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Hmmm, encore un fois................

View attachment 223802

OOFF! Looks like a Whitworth.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Here it is without the paper patch.. 45 caliber 500 grain and you are right on the length. Some of you wonder about it as if it is very unusual. This weight and heavier are what the biggest share of the top long-distant shooters use. I just don't happen to be one of them. Just like to think I am, just not. Interesting information from all of you. I am still a Doubting Thomas. I know an engineer who likes to shoot more than anybody I know. Guess I may have to run this by him. Some of you may have technical experience and certainly you may be right. I sure would like to know if that is the case or how you base your information.

I see why they call you Canonball! lol

 

[Spillikins]

I don’t understand why some posters are so amazed by a 500gr bullet. Here are some 540gr bullets I cast for my Parker-Hale .451.
That’s more or less what everyone uses.

 

[64Springer]

I don’t understand why some posters are so amazed by a 500gr bullet. Here are some 540gr bullets I cast for my Parker-Hale .451.
That’s more or less what everyone uses.
View attachment 223905

Driven in to imprint the rifling? Paper wrapped?

What is the twist rate? Powder weight?

Heavy target rifle?

Thanks.

 

[Spillikins]

Paper wrapped. I think 1:18. I use the same bullets (sized down .002in) in my Pedersoli Gibbs. Perfectly manageable recoil with 95gr of powder. 75gr in the Parker-Hale.

 

[tenngun]

Wasn’t the sniper rifle ( Whitworth?) a .45 with a 451 hexagon 500 grain bullet?

 

[cannonball1]

The Cannonball comes from my 62 Caliber Flintlock fullstock Hawkens shooting a roundball. This other stuff came just a few years ago with English Sporting Rifles, Sporting Shotguns, peep sights and long distance shooting. Trouble is i now have cataracts and have trouble focusing at long distance. I had a lot of help from some on the forum to adapt to paper-patch bullets. I love seeing what a real Sporting Blackpowder gun will do, one with a 1 in 18 inch twist, clean after every shot, go to the range and watch shooters go through hundreds of dollars worth of bullets and you go through ten dollars worth of ammo.
I talked to a couple of engineers who are strong in shooting. They are going to research the issue of "kick". One said, which was noted by one of the members on the forum, a different kind of recoil. He said a rifled gun would have a harder time to start the bullet moving and the difference may be a perceive different kind of recoil. Will keep you posted if they come to a conclusion. Had to remind them we are talking about BP not modern powder.

 

[billraby]

I got a rifle that shoots a 1700 grain ball with a 450 grain powder charge. Recoil energy is several hundred ft/lbs, but it is not at all painful. I have never gotten a bruise from it. It weighs 17 pounds and handling recoil was the primary consideration in the stock design. The stock design will have no effect on the actual recoil, but it will make a huge difference in how you feel it. Just as important is the proper shooting technique. Someone that has never firted anything larger than a deer rifle would likely be injured by something like this. If recoil seems too much, the best thing to do is shoot it more often. Practice will make a difference.

 

[TFoley]

Wasn’t the sniper rifle ( Whitworth?) a .45 with a 451 hexagon 500 grain bullet?

Used by Confederate sharpshooters, not 'sniper's, the Whitworth rifle was a much-feared and highly accurate rifle used by specialist infantry in your recent civil war. There are probably north of five thousand posts on this website about them, many of them mine or those of David Minshall of Research Press fame.

 

[Frontier's]

Twist has zero to do with recoil.

 

[Bill M.]

muzzle velocity times projectile weight = recoil.

I spent a dozen shots sighting my .50 caliber in with 90 grains and 450 grain projectiles. I have it perfect. But...no desire to shoot that load again to re-check it. Took almost 2 weeks for the bruise to clear. Next time I will put a small sand bag between that brass buttplate and my old shoulder. And shooting off a bench is tough for recoil. I went back to round balls. I finally figured out I was not going to shoot a Grizzley bear or a buffalo in Tennessee any way,

 

[64Springer]

muzzle velocity times projectile weight = recoil.

I spent a dozen shots sighting my .50 caliber in with 90 grains and 450 grain projectiles. I have it perfect. But...no desire to shoot that load again to re-check it. Took almost 2 weeks for the bruise to clear. Next time I will put a small sand bag between that brass buttplate and my old shoulder. And shooting off a bench is tough for recoil. I went back to round balls. I finally figured out I was not going to shoot a Grizzley bear or a buffalo in Tennessee any way,

Ummm.....Bar.

 

[dave astle]

You have that right.I had a pedersoli 45/70 that kicked like a mule.my Shiloh sharps I can shoot all day with no problem

 

[gunpa]

No Excuses bullets used to (and still might) make a 600 grain 45 cal muzzleloader bullet. I shoot 525 grain boolits in my 54 but suspect the bigger hole in the bore reduces pressure and recoil compared to a 45.

 

[smoothshooter]

Let me put it this way if you had a spring that barely fit a 30" barrel and you straightened that spring out it would, lets say approx, it would be three times the length. A rifled barreled bullet would go three times the smooth bore in that distance in that 30's" thus more recoil. And, centrifugal force requires more friction and energy. All I know a heavier gun should recoil less usually. Same grain of bullet and same grain of powder and the lighter smooth bore has less recoil. I would guess the smooth bore bullet would come out of the barrel faster everything else being the same, in other words more velocity.

 

[smoothshooter]

Twist rate will affect the recoil impulse but the difference is likely insignificant. I am not sure of the dynamics of it using gunpowder in a muzzleloader but the modern cotton burners build more pressure with a faster twist all else being equal as there is more resistance encountered pushing a bullet down a fast twist bore than there is down a slow twist bore. Higher pressure means more muzzle energy and possibly more pressure to provide a jet affect. Again the difference is likely small and not of any consequence but the physics say that there will be a difference.

The rifled bullet may travel some distance farther than a ball fired from a smoothbore because it is spinning and more stable in flight. I do not think the rifle ball will go 3 times as far as the smooth-bored one.

 

[Steve Wagner]

Somewhat agreed, and that's one reason you might feeling less recoil from the larger and smoother bore of your shotgun w the same projectile weight. I think the twist factor/friction might be noticeable when comparing a rifle w a shotgun. Also, much of the recoil is generated by the projectile's exit from the muzzle. That's why muzzle brakes work on the new fangled stuff. It redirects the exit gasses to pull the muzzle forward and down instead of pushing the shooter back. Reduce the pipe, use the same weight projectile, same charge, the pressure is amplified at separation. Probably a combo of other things mentioned here as well. A smooth bore would not necessarily produce more velocity because that becomes a function of the pressure curve, rifling/friction and propellant dynamics. I will leave that for the black powder experts here on how that translate w ML's, smooth vs. rifled, but w smokeless, this is why there are so many different burn rates designed to get the most from these peculiarities of a given rifle. 2 different rifles, same bullet, same caliber and even same exact model-surprisingly different powders can be best for each. Same powder- way different performances. Bore tightness, chamber differences and other factors from tooling differentials are huge. I think that part holds true for ML's as well. SW