Fouling shot

[Trench]

Thanks Paul for clarifying something that I have been wondering over for about a month now re: whether or not a fouling shot is needed. Your results indicate that it does not indeed sound necessary!

However if I have read Dutch's Accuracy System correctly, he always does prepare a shooting session with a fouling shot (using 40 gr of powder and no prb), then cleans with one swipe of a cleaning patch, then loads with prb, and the session begins, with a similar kind of cleaning between each shot. The idea being that throughout the entire shooting session, including the first shot loaded with a prb, that there is a consistent 'one swipe of the cleaning patch' level of fouling in the barrel.

That makes sense to me for consistency in target shooting, because the barrel will never be as clean as it is before the first shot. However, that's not the case for hunting where only the first shot counts.

 

[BrownBear]

I still remember the time it took me two fouling shots to make my rifle accurate enough to hit the deer I was shooting at. Didn't matter that I was aiming right at the deer all three times, the gun just didn't settle down and shoot straight till it had that double load of fouling. :rotf:

 

[paulvallandigham]

First: Remember that Dutch is/was a long time target shooter. Target shooters are looking for the Nth degree of accuracy from their rifles, considering their cleaning procedure between shots. Hunters rarely need that level of accuracy.

BrownBear's gun that would not fire accurately without first shooting off TWO blank charges- or starter loads-- reminds me of a gun I worked on several years ago. I found the bedding of the barrel and tang were wrong, and as soon as I fixed that, the gun shot well the first shot fired, and consecutive shots fired to the same POA.

There are lots of reasons that rifles won't shoot "Cold"; its up to the shooter- or with help from more experienced shooters and gunsmiths--- to figure out what that particular gun's problem IS.

A friend of mine fixed the rifle of another club member by simply loosening the tang screw on the gun. The owner had cranked it down too much, and it was causing fliers all over the target, with and without starter loads.

Another friend found his forestock had warped over the winter, when the gun set in a warm, dry trailer. His first shot went exactly to POA. The next shot was off the paper at 50 yards. He finally took a suggestion from someone to pull the keys on the forestock, and discovered the condition. Since it was a CVA rifle with two keys, he put the forward key into the stock to hold the barrel, and proceeded to shoot cloverleaf groups off the bench at 50 yards.

I have experiences several guns where the owner was not paying close attention to the ball sizes and patch thickness used. The patches showed burning and blow by. When we change either the patch thickness, or the ball diameter, or both, the gun shot to the same POA, and shot small groups again. The next time at the range with a "cold" gun, he found that the first shot fired to the same POI as all the rest, and stopped using "starter loads" to dirty his barrel. I made one fellow write down on the inside lid of his range box the ball diameter, and the Patch thickness he needed for that gun. He added his best powder charge, telling me he always forgot if he was loading 3Fg or 2Fg when he went to buy powder! :shocked2: He gave a group of us the usual comment about not understanding how important it is to use the correct thickness of patching material, and the correct lube! He had an "assortment" of .530" and .535" diameter balls in a bag in his range box, which we helped him sort out, and put in marked containers. :blah: :idunno: :surrender: :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

I've noticed that the first shot out of several of the hooked breech halfstock rifles I own, fire the first shot out of the group but the remaining shots all day long stay in a tight bunch.

It's just some speculation on my part but I think what's happening is the guns barrel was removed and cleaned, oiled and replaced in the stock and when this was done the two part hooked breech didn't seat quite right.
The first shot drove the barrel back against the breech block and it seated as it should and remained there for the rest of the shoot.

That sort of barrel movement can throw a shot out of the group.

 

[Mattole]

I'm learning a lot from you in this thread, Paul - thanks.

My only muzzleloader at this time is an Investarms Hawken in .54 and I look forward to finding its ideal patch/ball/load combo very soon. I have a variety of 'dry lubed' patch material waiting to try out with it.

Once I have all the factors 'dialed in' I will hopefully find that the first, clean barrel shot has the same poi as the following ones, at least as far as 'hunting accuracy' is concerned..

 

[BrownBear]

Once I have all the factors 'dialed in' I will hopefully find that the first, clean barrel shot has the same poi as the following ones, at least as far as 'hunting accuracy' is concerned..

Here's a little food for thought. When sighting in for hunting, I shoot a "one shot" groups. I thoroughly clean and dry the barrel and everything else before taking another shot, rather than the range routine of a wet patch and a dry patch, then shoot again.


I've never had a gun that profited enough from swabbing to make it a habit, any more than I learn anything from multi-shot groups. Sure I'd swab if I was a range rat matching holey paper with other range rats.

But I'm a hunter, and I really only care where that first ball lands. In a quick follow-up scenario I'm not going to be swabbing between shots, and all my guns deliver subsequent shots from fouled barrels just fine for hunts. Goodenuff for me.

 

[Snow on the Roof]

I'm learning a lot from you in this thread, Paul - thanks.

Now don't go telling Paul a thing like that...he'll start believing he's smart and the next thing you know he'll become a lawyer 'er somethin'... :rotf:

Snow

 

[paulvallandigham]

The only way I know to " cure" problems with hooked breech rifles is to glue the barrel and tang together( use hot glue, as its easily removed by applying heat to the parts again) and then bedding the two items in the stock together. That way, the hooked breech will return to the same position that it was in when the tang and barrel were bedded in the stock( Accraglas, or some other bedding compound works).

Of course, a bit of filing may be needed to marry the HOOK to the tang, and that must be done FIRST, and with marking dye to make sure that the hook fits the tang properly. The barrel should not "rock" back and forth, or up and down when the tang and barrel are put together outside the stock. :hatsoff: