Found a "Brown Bess".

[JohnithGee]

Spotted this in a forgotten corner of a museum in San Jacinto, under a stuffed buck head.
Saw some marks and even in person I couldn't quite make them out.

Here's the whole thing. Sorry I couldn't get more pictures, we weren't in there too long.

And here's the corner it was in, way back by the snowshoes.

Thought it might be of interest to some of you on here.
Placard says its an original Bess from the 1790's

 

[tenngun]

sure looks old. I have been to several small meseums only to see a modren repo labled and original. Saw a charly or early us musket labled a bess in one. And St Louis has a bess labeled a hawken and a hawken labled a bess.

 

[Rifleman1776]

And St Louis has a bess labeled a hawken and a hawken labled a bess.

:shocked2: In St. Louis that is a mortal sin.

 

[Alden]

John;
Thanks for grabbing those pics.

Tenn;
These are some "museums"! Well, in your instance it was a 50/50 chance! Whoever was putting the cards on in the display probably had grits for breakfast...

 

[Grenadier1758]

For years, the Jefferson Memorial Museum, (the Arch), had an Anthony Zoli Harper's Ferry on display in the Corps of Discovery display. They knew it was a replica.

It will be interesting to see what goes on display after the renovation.

 

[tenngun]

John;
Thanks for grabbing those pics.

Tenn;
These are some "museums"! Well, in your instance it was a 50/50 chance! Whoever was putting the cards on in the display probably had grits for breakfast...

Well a feller what eats grits ought ta know a hawken from a bess. Howsomeever this were at the big histoical museum in saint lou.I rekon they got some yankee what to put out the cards :rotf:

 

[pargent]

Doesn't look like the real deal .

 

[Wes/Tex]

Don't know for sure...has a lot of things right for a Short, Land Pattern but without better pictures from better angles, it's really hard to say...which doesn't mean it's not a 'weathered' modern gun, just looks like at least 50/50 odds.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I do know that many years ago (I was about 10) I was allowed to handle a Brown Bess in the St. Louis History museum on a school trip. This was before replicas were even in any sort of significant production. We were allowed to shoulder the gun and full the trigger. Very hard trigger pull. I could barely get the trigger to trip by pulling with all my strength. Thinking on it now, it was probably a 3rd model India Pattern. My recollection is getting hazy, but it was the first muzzleloading gun I put to my shoulder.

At one time the history museum knew what a land pattern musket was.

 

[Blackfingers]

Did you buy the musket?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

from what I can see, although the angle is difficult and may not be captured in the photo (tough to get such shots from a display, I know)... there is no hole in the forward portion of the bow of the trigger guard where it meets the stock, for the rear, sling swivel, nor is there any other hole for the missing rear sling swivel, plus the trigger guard looks slightly bent..., characteristic of not 1790's but 1970's vintage muskets from the Island of Japan. :wink:

LD

 

[pargent]

Most likely an early movie prop.

 

[Zonie]

I don't know anything about original Besses but didn't the British inlet the tail of the trigger guard better than that?

It's standing very proud of the wood. Much more so than would be due to shrinkage of the stock IMO.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Without digging out books, didn't most(or at least a lot)of the Sea Service muskets get built without sling swivels or mounting holes since they were stored aboard ship and not basically shoulder carried?

 

[pargent]

Even at first glance there is not one single thing on that gun that says it's genuine British Military issue ,even though it does resemble a Bess every piece of its make up (every part )is wrong in some shape or form .

 

[Alden]

I think I see a sling swivel hole in the front of the trigger guard and don't, offhand, see it as being the famously "flat" Miroku but it isn't the greatest photo in either case...

 

[Blackfingers]

:wink: I have looked hard at the picture and believe I can see the rear sling swivel hole in the triggerguard. Also, It's a Jap Bess, triggerguard is bent, the sample sent to Japan was damaged during transit, bending the guard, The Japs took this as the way it should be duplicated. This I believe. Again, did the poster buy the gun? More pics would help a lot.

 

[Blackfingers]

:thumbsup: Personally, I like Besses, I have had many and still own one. It's an Indian 3rd model, I sent the lock to Earl Kathan of NH, he tuned it up and hardened the frizzen for me and the action is 10 times smother with a ton of spark. I would recommend at least attending to the lock to make shooting these muskets more enjoyable.

 

[rickystl]

Just happened to bump into this Thread. I haven't been to the Western Expansion Museum here in St. Louis for a few years now. But I own a gun that probably SHOULD be on display there. An original NWT Fusil that's all complete. I know museums take donations. But I seem to recall they use to take items on a sort of long term loan basis, with credits to the owner. Don't know if they still do this? I've often thought about this but never really did any investigation.
If I loaned the gun to the Museum (assuming they would do this type of arrangement), more people would be able to see and enjoy it.
On the other hand, having it to hold whenever I want, and making it available to other BP gun buffs when they come through town to visit, is certainly convenient.
The Museum is right in the City where I live. But, letting it go (even on loan) from my greedy little hands would be tough. :haha:
But the thought has crossed my mind enough times, I thought I would ask members on this Forum what you'all think?
Thanks for any comments. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't know anything about original Besses but didn't the British inlet the tail of the trigger guard better than that?

It's standing very proud of the wood. Much more so than would be due to shrinkage of the stock IMO.

Just as I was starting to build my Bess from a Navy Arms kit the NRA convention came to Indianapolis, Indiana, not far from where I lived at the time. There was a large display of Brown Bess collectors. I specifically looked at the inlays. Without noting perzactly each of the many-many variations there seemed to be no standarization of inlayed or not inlayed. I'm sure some of the experts can point out which variation is inlayed and which not as they have done so often with other obscure minitua on the Bessess.