Fowler for grouse?

[Darkgael]

Interesting to read the last few posts - about handling, balance and barrel length. That set of ideas was also on my mind and so the different opinions help to sort out what I need to pay attention to (I have contacted a gun maker about an hour or so from my house.)IF...If I decide to do this.
With all due respect, I am not deeply interested in historical accuracy. I do appreciate beautiful firearms but this one I would need to be functional and to work and - as someone wrote - be able to carry all day. And not worry about.
A number of you seem to hunt in the thick stuff. I normally hunt with a SXS of one type or another, old guns that fit me well. They are all plain, field grade guns. I find myself using them more often than not to push the branches in the thickets out of the way of head, hands and feet on my way to a pointing dog that I can hear but not see and who is only 20 ft. away. I never worry about these guns getting scratched, etc. I was thinking while looking at a number of truly beautiful fowlers, like the one pictured in this thread, "Boy, that would get scratched up pretty good."(the same thought that I have when looking at a beautifully engraved Holland shotgun.) I guess the point of that is to ask "how do you not worry about that finely finished firearm getting beat up? Or do you?
Pete

 

[Roy]

Just adds character Pete :wink:

 

[Maestro]

A friend of mine told me, "Take that new gun into the woods and hit it on a rock - cry for a while ... then go hunt. " Easier said than done, but the first ding is always the hardest... like Roy said.

BTW, you're also not too far away to check out Dixon's Muzzleloading Shop near Kempton, PA.

 

[Mike Brooks]

:youcrazy: Yeah, those long barreled guns will allow you to swing on a quail just as fast as those short barrels guns we use today, for sure! :bull: :surrender:

And I bet you can find some rifle shooters that will agree with you. Frankly, I will stick with what I learned from years of shooting shotguns at moving targets. A balanced gun can only give you so much, and then its length becomes a hinderance to catching up with a fleeing bird. If you limit your shots to straight aways, fine. But to get to a crossing target, and get out in front of it with a flintlock fowler, You need to be moving it as fast as can be. Quailk, grouse and dove, among other birds will be gone behind cover before you get those heavy long barreled guns in front of them for a shot. Take your gun to a sporting clays range and shoot a round. You will get a much better idea of your gun's, and your own capabilities.

1) You have to swing a long barreled gun no farther than a short barreled gun.
2) with a GOOD flint gun you give no more lead than you do a cartridge gun.
3) A properly built long fowler isn't heavy. I just built one with a 48" barrel that weighs 6 lbs 4 oz.
4) my skeet scores with a long barrel flint gun are the same as with my cartridge guns 18-24 out of 25, And I'm not all that good. :redface:
5) It's not how many targets you break or birds you kill, it's how good you look while you're doing it. :blah:

 

It's not how many targets you break or birds you kill, it's how good you look while you're doing it. :blah:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Now your talkin'

 

I hunt the thick bush of northern Ontario for moose and once the moose is in the tree it's grouse huntin' time.

:shocked2: Sooo......do you use dogs to tree the moose just like bear and cougar hunters?. Out west here our moose are way too big to climb trees :blah: . Shooting things out of trees aint very sporting either :grin:

 

[Vaino]

To begin w/, I'm a meat hunter and really appreciate ruffed grouse on the table. My hat's off to those who are able to kill grouse w/ a fowler, but I wonder how many grouse are actually killed using a fowler? Most of the "grousy" areas that I hunt are thick w/ dogwood, alders and pines and as said before, the gun out of necessity is used to part brush and a short bbl is a decided advantage. In sixty yrs. of hunting grouse, I have gone through 11 setters and pointers and perhaps that many shotguns including O&Us, SxSs, autos and presently use a Rem. 870 w/ a 26" bbl, bored imp. cyl. and everyone in the group also uses the 870 because over the yrs. it's performed better than all the others. So again, my sincere compliments to those who can consistently drop ruffed grouse in heavy cover w/ a fowler......Fred

 

[paulvallandigham]

Go around the thicket, using any of a number of game trails. Or, go through the thicket with your back leading, so your body protects the gun.

My fowler has no carving, inlays, or patchbox. All the furniture is steel, and case hardened. The wood is nice, and straight grained. It is for hunting, and not for show. Pretty is as pretty does, no? :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Brooks: How many Station 3,4 7 5 targets to you hit with your fowler, and how many Station 8 targets do you hit? Obviously, you hit some of them some of the time. As a pheasant hunter, I didn't think I needed to even practice skeet shooting to hunt pheasants, because the birds either flew away from me, or across my path. Then, I went hunting with my new " boss ", and the first bird that got up out of a thicket flew straight for me. I killed it with a couple of pellets to the head with a purposesly pointed ahead and to the left shot at about 2 yards! It fell at my feet, flopping, so I stepped on its head and neck while I killed 2 more birds. We got 6 birds out of that one rise, and all the other birds we saw were either running, or getting up well out of range.

The next time I was at the range, I took my full choke shotgun to the skeet range and began practicing. When I finally tried shooting a shotgun with less choke in it at skeet targets, Boy, did that make a difference! When I used my 22" barreled gun with NO choke, I finally started getting those Station 8 targets.

If I were mainly going to hunt deer, and turkey, Mike, I would not hesitate to use a long barreled fowler like you build, although Not one of your fancy carved guns. But, for fast moving birds in heavy cover, I actually hunt because I like to eat wild game, and not simply to dirty a barrel while walking or wading through thick brush getting stuck, or scratched, and swatting gnats, and mosquitoes. that is my argument for using a shorter barrel for birds. I can shoot holes in the air at the Skeet and trap ranges. I put in my time shooting behind birds because I was not out in front of them enough when I slapped the trigger.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

From a shooting standpoint barrel length is not as big an issue as is barrel weight and dynamics (where and how the weight is placed).

From a carry standpoint a shorter barrel may be more "familiar" and comfortable with those who hunt birds with modern guns.

If the amount of game taken is the priority and historical accuracy is not important, I go modern.

 

[rickystl]

Swamp Rat: That gun is beautiful!! Congrats. Maybe I'm like you. Start out thinking I want a plain gun, but end up buying something I start having second thoughts about taking out to the woods.@#$%&* But of course I will. Custom built, finish, carving, etc. Again, congrats. Beautiful gun. :thumbsup:

 

[Runner]

If historical accuracy is your top priority, then that is very cool. If eats is your top priority, that is fine too. If you have to try to say that a 44 inch fowler swings and shoots as nice at birds as my 30 inch Trapper does, well, you go ahead and talk. Could a person shoot one enough to become better with it than most folks are with shorter guns? Possible. The shorter gun will still be faster. Historical accuracy does not trump truth!

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Dont disagree with you to a point.... but faster becomes whippy at some point.

I think the smaller issues and subtle differences in hadnling become more predominate for those who spend more time shooting a shotgun (shooters) as opposed to those who spend more time carrying one (hunters). Bigger issues I think are reversed. I am both so I am not picking on one vs. the other.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Brooks: How many Station 3,4 7 5 targets to you hit with your fowler, and how many Station 8 targets do you hit?

Vallandigham: My troubles are with station #2 and #6 ...it's a mental thing :youcrazy: #8 has never been a problem.

If I were mainly going to hunt deer, and turkey, Mike, I would not hesitate to use a long barreled fowler like you build, although Not one of your fancy carved guns.

Fancy doesn't make them shoot better , but life is too short to have a plain gun. :haha: Besides, you'll get more for them when it's time to sell. By the way, I build plain guns too, I just don't wave them around on the internet as much. :wink:

If the amount of game taken is the priority and historical accuracy is not important, I go modern.

I'll agree with that 100%. But having said that I've never taken any game other than squirrels or rabbits with anything other than black powder, mostly flint and a few BP hammer guns. For me it's all about the guns and not the score.

If historical accuracy is your top priority, then that is very cool. If eats is your top priority, that is fine too. If you have to try to say that a 44 inch fowler swings and shoots as nice at birds as my 30 inch Trapper does, well, you go ahead and talk.

If economical eating is the goal, I'm off to the grocery store..... :wink:
We all play this game for different reasons. For me it's all about the guns. I want the experience of learning how the old timers used these guns and didn't seem to think they were at a disadvantage. From my experience they did quite well with their "unwieldly" old archaic fowling guns. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

* Quote:

Brooks: How many Station 3,4 7 5 targets to you hit with your fowler, and how many Station 8 targets do you hit?


Vallandigham: My troubles are with station #2 and #6 ...it's a mental thing #8 has never been a problem. "



Yeah, I have trouble with the doubles shooting a single barrel gun, at those stations, too! :rotf: :hatsoff:

 

[Roy]

5) It's not how many targets you break or birds you kill, it's how good you look while you're doing it. :blah:

:haha: :thumbsup:

 

[Runner]

Sometimes we forget the other groups within the group Mike! For you, it is about the gun, and you want a perfect duplicate of what they used. I could care less about a perfect duplicate and prefer to use the same level of tech that they used. I believe the question this time was "Which is better for hunting Grouse?". On that single point, the 30 inch gun has it all over the longer gun.
Now, the person gets a 30 to 36 incher and when he gets involved in the historic stuff later thru the use of the shorter gun, he is going to want a more historic copy to go play with at the gatherings. For me, that is the only true argument for the longer guns in the first place.
I was in Gulfport saying goodbye to my son the other day. Pretty country once you get far enough north for the pines to give way to oak woods. Wish I had the time to hunt up some of the folks from down that way for a good BS session, but I had no time this trip.

 

[Roy]

For grouse I like the shorter barrels whether its here in the laurel thickets or up home in the slashings. I can swing a longer barreled gun as good as I can a short one, but trees and limbs tend to get in the way. I am more of a point and shoot type guy though, with hardly any time to swing on a grouse (ya hear the flush catch a quick movement and they are gone). Mike is right about overall gun weight.
I do like all guns long, short, plain or fancy, flinters or modern... :haha:

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Roy is spot on. There is a reason why short light guns dominate today for grouse. It's the weight (which is not so much an issue for the long fowler but for longer modern guns) and the problems with the grouse cover and close, quick flight. The shorter barrel also allows hunters who are not proper to shotgunning form to snap the gun up then get on the bird quicker than with a longer gun.

The short gun is not however the best gun for all situations and it does not swing better than a longer barreled gun.

It boils down to personal preference, goals and ability.

 

[Mike Brooks]

"Which is better for hunting Grouse?". On that single point, the 30 inch gun has it all over the longer gun

Well then, why not an 18" barrel? If short is good wouldn't shorter be better? :wink: