French flintlock pistol?

[Walter Sobchak]

I’ve scoured the interwebs, bought Torsten Lenk’s book, I even went to the Dresden gun armory museum in Germany in search of clues. I need help identifying where, when, and potentially who made this gun. Barrel is 7” long, gun length is 13” long. All parts appear original as the fit is firm and secure. Loading rod does not appear original however. Stock appears to be figured walnut. Lock & barrel have finial engravings. There are no visible lettering or initials. There is an engraved mark or stamp partially obscured by the stock but I’m reluctant to disassemble the gun. I assumed the pistol is French, mid-1700’s? Any thoughts or opinions / expertise would be greatly appreciated! I’m new to collecting, slowly building a small collection for home display.

 

[Flintlock1640]

looks Dutch or German to me. Ca 1750s give or take 20 years, more likely earlier than later given the early banana lock.

 

[Conquerordie]

Almost looks like burl walnut. It's beautiful. Interesting the tang is straight sided, and not flared. It might be even earlier. It seems like a higher quality pistol, odd that it's not marked in any way.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

Almost looks like burl walnut. It's beautiful. Interesting the tang is straight sided, and not flared. It might be even earlier. It seems like a higher quality pistol, odd that it's not marked in any way.

I looked at every single flintlock pistol at every museum in Munich, Dresden, Nürnberg, while I was there this summer. I compared the sideplate design to ones in museums and found close / almost exact similarities to other French & German guns of the early 1700’s. The lock is what confuses me, I didn’t see any with the 2 pins

 

[Conquerordie]

I looked at every single flintlock pistol at every museum in Munich, Dresden, Nürnberg, while I was there this summer. I compared the sideplate design to ones in museums and found close / almost exact similarities to other French & German guns of the early 1700’s. The lock is what confuses me, I didn’t see any with the 2 pins

I'm not sure what you mean by pins?

 

[Walter Sobchak]

I'm not sure what you mean by pins?

the two metal pins on the lock. I’ve seen a lot of pistols with one singular pin but not many with 2. I’m not sure if it was a design feature specific to a certain region or gunsmith. I’ll attach photo.

 

[Conquerordie]

Gotcha, they are usually the end of screws one for the trigger, one for a bridle holding the tumbler to the lock plate from the inside. Least that's the typical way of attachment. Would have to see the inside of the lock plate to verify.

 

[PathfinderNC]

the two metal pins on the lock. I’ve seen a lot of pistols with one singular pin but not many with 2. I’m not sure if it was a design feature specific to a certain region or gunsmith. I’ll attach photo.

They all have two screws; earlier looks had longer sear springs and that holding screw was under the bottom swell of the cock.

 

[Relic shooter]

Beautiful pistol
A photo of inside of the lock would be helpful to date it's age as many of the 'earliest' flintlocks
lacked a bridle on the tumbler even on fine quality pistols like yours.
Photos below of this early pistol converted from flintlock to percussion serve as a good example...

As to nationality, in my opinion it's looks to be English or French manufacture.

 

[TCMonts]

Nice wood.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

Nice wood.

It looks almost a rich red color in bright light. Very figured, probably a walnut root section. The finish feels like it still has lacquer on it. Who ever made it intentionally chose a figured piece of wood. It’s what drew me to the gun upon seeing it! As well as the bronze sideplate and rear escutcheon. It’s surprisingly in really good / functional condition as well. Holds both half and full cock.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

Beautiful pistol
A photo of inside of the lock would be helpful to date it's age as many of the 'earliest' flintlocks
lacked a bridle on the tumbler even on fine quality pistols like yours.
Photos below of this early pistol converted from flintlock to percussion serve as a good example...

As to nationality, in my opinion it's looks to be English or French manufacture.

I’ll see if I can unscrew the 2 side plate screws and remove the lock. I’m reluctant to try to disassemble, but it definitely could provide more clues. Let me see if they unscrew easily and without force. I just don’t want to break anything.

 

[Relic shooter]

I’ll see if I can unscrew the 2 side plate screws and remove the lock. I’m reluctant to try to disassemble, but it definitely could provide more clues. Let me see if they unscrew easily and without force. I just don’t want to break anything.

#1- To prevent damaged screw heads, only use gunsmith quality screwdrivers with heads to fit any head application.
Can order these sets off Amazon for small amount.

Walter for antique firearms with stuck screws & nipples a 50/50 mixture of acetone & auto transmission fluid has always worked well for me.
For small applications like yours in wood -metal contact areas apply with a needlepoint oil bottle or toothpick, larger metal parts get soaked for 24 hours to free up stuck threads, dried lube & corrosion..
Looking forward to seeing the locks interior if you feel comfortable removing the lock!

 

[Conquerordie]

Definitely use a good screwdriver that fits, but looking closely at the picture, there looks to be something like a small piece of metal, like a small nail or staple across the top of the tail of the lock. That might hold the lock in even if you remove the lock bolts. Maybe it's a chip if wood? Can't tell, but just go slowly.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

Definitely use a good screwdriver that fits, but looking closely at the picture, there looks to be something like a small piece of metal, like a small nail or staple across the top of the tail of the lock. That might hold the lock in even if you remove the lock bolts. Maybe it's a chip if wood? Can't tell, but just go slowly.

You have a keen eye. Yes, at some point in time somebody put a small nail in that corner tip to likely secure it. I removed the lock, the screws were firm but turntable and the lock came out rather smoothly. Photos attached. There were no markings or engravings that I could find on the inner lock or the inner wood stock. There were still wood shavings inside the stock, interesting to see how this gunmaker chiseled it out. Everything fit back together. The lock is rudimentary, not much to it. The 2 teeth looked to be in good shape.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

Beautiful pistol
A photo of inside of the lock would be helpful to date it's age as many of the 'earliest' flintlocks
lacked a bridle on the tumbler even on fine quality pistols like yours.
Photos below of this early pistol converted from flintlock to percussion serve as a good example...

As to nationality, in my opinion it's looks to be English or French manufacture.

 

[Conquerordie]

It's a nice unbridled lock, the inletting looks right. I'm nobody, but I might even push the date back to the 1730's. But again, just an opinion. But you do have a beautiful pistol, cherish it.

 

[Relic shooter]

The lock's interior indicates your pistol dates to early 1700's.
I've shot may of my original flint & percussion era firearms but due to condition of your pistol's wood, etc would not reccomend.
Some are best admired for their historical beauty.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

It's a nice unbridled lock, the inletting looks right. I'm nobody, but I might even push the date back to the 1730's. But again, just an opinion. But you do have a beautiful pistol, cherish it.

Thank you! I wasn’t able to remove the barrel, it appeared as though thin metal pins secure it in place, as well as that top screw. There is a visible engraving on the barrel that is hidden by the stock, but I’d have to remove the barrel. This pistol is my favorite of a small collection I’ve started, just created a wall mounted display rack for them.