Frizzen Sparks/Flint smashing question

[ky_man]

Hello All,

Although this is my first post, I have been visiting these forums for a few weeks now, and have been sponging off you guys like crazy. I'm new to flintlocks, so go easy on me.

I recently purchased a Traditions Kentucky rifle, and it's been keeping me pretty busy. Let me dive right in - When it came out of the box, there was substantial friction between the cock and the lock plate, which I removed by adding a small metal washer in between the two. Secondly, the lock was not inlet far enough, as there was a 1/16" gap between the pan and barrel. I removed some wood and now it fits snug. Unfortunately, this has led me to my current problem: The 5/8" english flints I use are a hair too wide, and they will either hit the barrel (I test for fit before dry firing) or they will hit the outside edge of the pan, breaking off chunks of flint, effectively killing it. What to do? Right now, I'm thinking I can Dremel-cut some metal from the outside edge of the pan (~1/32") and that should keep the flint from crashing into the pan. Has anyone else had this problem? It's costing me $1 every time I bash up a flint; because the mainspring is so strong it's kind of a rock basher.

My second question is this: I have been playing around with the spark on this gun, and although I have gotten it to spark, how much spark should I be seeing? In a well lit room, I can see 5-6 cherry red sparks fly off the frizzen, and in a dark room it looks like there is a "pop" of red right in the pan area. I have some 4f, but haven't actually gotten around to test firing a pan. Since I'm going to do some work on the lock anyways, what can I do to improve the quantity of spark? I believe the frizzen to be OK. I filed and smoothed the frizzen spring and frizzen foot to as mirror polish, and it breaks at ~3lbs. The angle of the flint/frizzen at half-cock is about 60deg. My buddy's custom rifle gets a "shower" of white/red sparks that's quite impressive compared to mine, which makes me wonder.

Thanks in advance for your help, I'm trying to get this thing tuned for a hunting/shooting weekend next week.

 

[ky_man]

Here are some pictures for clarification

 

[silverfox]

You are going to get lots of answers some good and some bad. I'm not that much into working on flintlocks but from what you said it is doing and your pictures this is my ideas. 1. since you are already working on the lock yes you could use the dremel and cut the pan a little longer just don't cut it open. 2. And I think this is the best answer is to solder a small shim on the top of your lock plate where the hammer hits the plate when full down. This would shorten your hammer fall and stop your flint from hitting the pan. It won't effect the hammer fall or the frizzen opening should not effect sparks either. A 1/32 might be enough.
Your first picture shows where to put the shim, It would go between the lockplate and the hammerstop, Thats the part of the hammer that hits the lockplate to stop the hammer from going farther down.
Gooc luck and now lets see what others have to add.
Fox
:thumbsup:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I hate to say this, but that is just a crappy lock. They work ok as a percussion but a flint lock is either good or worthless. Sooner or later you will either replace the lock with an L&R or trade off the gun. It's not difficult to convert it to percussion, just install a nipple drum and grind away the lockplate to fit and fit a bit of 3/8" steel square stock in the hammer jaws to strike the cap. Costs only the price of the nipple drum but I'm not sure the gun is even worth that. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. You could have gotten a Lyman trade rifle for about the same price and that is about the least expensive flintlock that will give satisfactory service in the long run.

 

[ky_man]

Thanks for your opinion, but I'll take my chances.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Know how you feel, I'd tinker with it a while myself, but be prepared for frustration. :grin:

 

[JimG]

I feel as though you should keep the rifle but also purchase a L/R replacement flint lock for the gun. I heard that the 'replacement' line is very easy to install. This will solve your troubles instantly. Cost should run $100-$135. Dixie, the Log Cabin Shop and others sell them.

 

[JimG]

Also they (L/R) make a 'large' and 'small' size for the Traditions. You may need to call the vendor before ordering to clarify this point.

 

[rich pierce]

Silverfox has a good suggestion. Also consider silver soldering a shim on the cock itself where it stops against the lockplate. I have seen that brazed on originals or even seen a piece riveted there.

 

[RemingtonMagnum]

This is a question as much as a statement. What would be wrong with simply going to a 1/2" flint?

Don Jackson Remington Magnum/Ultramag

 

[aap2]

Ky Man-The previous post suggesting a 1/2" flint is the first thing that I would try...Can't hurt and if it strikes and opens the frizzen properly, you are done. If that didn't work, I would return the lock or the whole gun to the dealer or manufacturer and let them replace or fix it. True, installing a L&R RPL lock will solve the problem,, but why should you have to put a replacement lock in a brand new gun?? Also, the sparks should be white; the frizzen may be too soft; check to see if your flint is making a washboard of it...if so, another reason to return it for repair/replacement. Make them give you what you paid for...Just my 2 cents worth...

 

[ky_man]

I ordered some 1/2" flints from TOTW. We'll see.

 

[Halftail]

KYMan,
What is the yellow "stuff" on the insides of the lock?

 

[paulvallandigham]

No one should have to put up with this with a new gun. Send it back. They either fix it, or send you your money.

You can put in another stop for the hammer, and you can regrind that pan to make room for the flint. But, while that might be the only choice you had if this was an original old gunlock, it makes no sense to have to do this with a new lock and gun. Take the washer out from behind the hammer, and send the gun back.

Paul

 

[Norskie]

Couple issues:
Friction. I take it there is no bridle on the tumbler, which puts all the bearing strain on the tumbler shaft and the lock plate. Did you remove the tumbler to see if the tumbler shaft is rough? Is the hole rough? If so, polishing those surfaces will help.
Bore butter as lube. Never seen that before. The stuff will probably dry out and gum up the works. Try a light gun oil.
Others have addressed the flint size. It looks too long to me, maybe try knapping the back side off. There's no reason the front of the flint should touch the pan.
Red sparks. Sounds like a soft frizzen.
You sure you want to keep this lock?

 

[ky_man]

I'm calling traditions as I'm writing this...yes it is bore butter. Actually, it feels smooter using that than light machine oil (my first try) The lock had a lot of friction to begin with, and wouldn't spark out of the box.

 

[Stony]

If you want to grind something, I'd suggest you grind the flint to fit. You can use the BLUE dremel grinding wheel on the flint. Just make sure you wear a mask or some kind of filter as the dust can be very harmful.

 

[ky_man]

I would have to re-shape all of my flints before taking them into the field. I thought of this, but it seemed more like a palliative instead of a cure. I guess trimming the flint wouldn't be a big deal, but should I even have to with a new gun?

 

[MikeChapin]

Hi KY_Man, welcome to the forum.

That lock looks almost identical to the CVA lock I have in a Kentucky pistol. I use a 1/2" flint in mine and it sparks well. They are pretty cheap locks but they work well enough if you work them a little.

If you are going to use the rifle a lot I would add my voice to the chorus about getting an L&R replacement lock. One look at the interior parts of each will show you the difference. Later if you decide to put a single set or even a double set trigger on it you will be able to. You won't be able to that with the stock lock.

 

[Davemuzz]

KY Man,

There is no way I would spend $135 for an L&R lock for this rifle. It just doesn't make sense to do that.

I think your approach to go back to Traditions and get a relpacement. But that's probably not going to happen in time for your impending hunting season. So, if you can mickey mouse it for now, do so. Then later, get it replaced.

If your going to spend $135 on something, then take that $135....plus some more and buy someones used T\C Hawken, or buy a Hawken kit gun. Then at least you will have a gun with a lifetime warranty.

But don't buy a Kia and then spend $ on aftermarket Hemi motors to make it run on the highway. 'Cause you still have a Kia tranny and frame...it just goes faster 'til the rest breaks.

Dave.