full stock Hawken flintlock

[Khufu]

I have been building and collecting front stuffers for nearly 40 years, so I do not need any basic info, I am hoping to get feedback from members with first hand knowledge of full stock Hawken filntlock rifles. I am going to move to Wyoming soon where elk tags are over the counter and moose tags are relitively easy to draw. My goto rifle, a .45 cal Lancaster school Rifle is way too light. I want to build a .58 cal Hawken to use on the bigger game, but I would like it to be as accurate a reproduction as possible. I have researched it some, and find the info as convincing as who shot Kennedy. The best I could come up with is fixed breech, not hooked, 32" to 38" barrel, tapered breech to muzzel, early iron or brass furnature, and Walnut stock, on the heavy side. I am hoping that those with hands on knowledge of the originals could correct me and add to my list. I am new to this forum so please excuse me if this has been covered in years past. I have held off on this post until I read back older posts, but I did not see this covered, thanks for any help you can offer to remedy my confusion.

 

[Snakebite]

Just want to say welcome to the forum.

Wish I could help, but I've never seen much on fullstocked flint Hawkens in my 35years of playing this game. I will say that I had a friend in Germany when I was stationed there in the Army and he built one of TOWs fullstock Hawken kits and it was pretty cool. But I know that has nothing to do with what you ask. Good luck in your search and your hunt.

Snakebite

 

[nwtradegun]

http://www.thehawkenshop.com/hawken_rifles.htm http://www.furtrade.org/ check these sites they may have theinfo

 

[Tom Compton]

I have heard from a reliable source of a LARGE private collection near you that had at least one room of original Hawkens. The collector is very informed. I do not have any contact info.

There is a full stock Hawken percussion in the museum on the College of the Ozarks campus that I used as a basis for my build but as said it is percussion.

TC

 

[Grenadier1758]

The unfortunate aspect of studying a full stock Hawken flintlock rifle is that only full stock percussion rifles exist that may have been flintlock rifles. I think that the rifle in the Smithsonian is one. The School of the Ozarks is another. There is a Sam Hawken rifle made in Xenia, Ohio that has a Maryland / Lancaster look to it. A rifle made by Christian Hawken (Sam's father) is pictured in several reference books but would be of no help.

Your best approach will be to study the full stock Hawken percussion rifles with drums and make a flintlock version.

 

[Khufu]

track of the wolf sells their full stocks with 42" barrels, so the rest if their parts are suspect. I have read everything I can find on the subject but a lot is conflicting. I know that as soon as I build this rifle I will bump into the one guy who knows these guns and it will be "nice try, but you got this, this and that wrong." I know that getting info on a rifle thats this rare is like hunting bigfoot. I really like the look of the fullstock Hawken, and I like to be as historically accurate as possible, otherwise, I just have a fullstock plains rifle. I hate being that guy at the halloween party that everyone asks "what are you supposed to be?"

 

[vulture]

A while back I picked up a used flintlock lock, nice L&R conversion lock that fits the Lyman GPR. After thinking about it for a while I went on line a ordered me a full stock pre-shaped and partially inlet stock, the barrel and ramrod channels are inlet, the rest is up to me. I picked up a nice Green Mountain barrel that fits the stock and I intend to make me a Lyman GPR full stock flintlock. Will it be a copy of any original rifles, no, it will be a full stock flintlock with a beaver tail cheek piece like the GPR, and no such animal ever existed, but that is perfectly fine with me. This is a rifle that I would have had built for me back in the day had I lived then and that is all it is to represent, it will be "my" custom built rifle and will copy nothing that ever existed. I understand wanting a firearm that matches as close as possible some original builders work, but there are those of us out her, few though we may be, who simply want what we want and don't really care if it matches anything that ever was. I'm not a purist, just a simple guy who enjoys shooting what he likes, regardless of what others may think of me and my choices. Personally I like your idea and would tell you to just go with it and enjoy. Stew.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have heard from a reliable source of a LARGE private collection near you that had at least one room of original Hawkens. The collector is very informed. I do not have any contact info.

There is a full stock Hawken percussion in the museum on the College of the Ozarks campus that I used as a basis for my build but as said it is percussion.

TC

The Ralph Foster museum, with it's extensive gun collection used to be one of my favorite places to visit and study gun. But, reportedly, some anti-gunner on the ruling board for College of the Ozarks had it all removed. The gun museum is no more. Yes, the Hawken and a Jaeger and much more are supposedly now in a vault away from human eyes. :cursing:
Here is a shot of the Hawken. Not very good pic, I couldn't escape the glare from the glass. I have a couple more, if you are interested I will post.

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[Dean2]

I have a full stock Left Hand Flintlock in 54 and 62 Caliber (Switch barrel) made by Taylor Sapergia. He has done a lot of research on the Hawken rifles as well as what the flint versions likely looked like prior to conversion to percussion. As far as I am aware there are no original full stock flint locks known to exist, they disappeared or were converted.

Here is a series of pictures of the gun Sapergia LH Flint Full Stock Hawken if that is any help.

You may also want to talk to Taylor. He is a great guy and always willing to help another Muzzle Loader out, particularly about building guns.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Another GREAT gun museum is the J. M. Davis museum at Claremore, Oklahoma. It has been quite a few years since my last visit. Need to return. Beyond amazing. And all guns shown are well researched and displayed with specs. http://www.thegunmuseum.com/

 

[Khufu]

very purdy rifle, how long is her barrel? Thats the spirit of what I am after, but in walnut as yhe examples I have seen (not handled) were walnut

 

[dave61965]

Sorry for intruding on the thread but please post any photos you may have of that particular rifle, I have a copy of that very rifle and have been doing some research on it and info is pretty slim, Dave

 

[Khufu]

I have some made up stuff too, an old CVA percussion mountain that I converted to flint and rebarreled to .32 with a green mountain barrel in 32" and it is surely the grim reaper to squirels and bunnies and such. Some weapons deserve careful attention to detail, the Lancaster, the Hawken, the Charlville, '61 springfields, '53 Enfields etc. they are so iconic that mistakes on them amount to sacrilege.

 

[rich pierce]

No doubt Jake and Sam made some full stock flint mountain rifles. But you will have to use early full stock percussion rifles by them as your guide and do a leap of faith. I for one would not want to shoot a .58 Hawken loaded for elk that weighed under 10 pounds.

Look for Hawken Rifles the Mountain Man's Choice by JD Baird and his book 15 Years in the Hawken Lode for pictures. But take his interpretations with a grain of salt.

 

[Khufu]

TC[/quote]


I have a couple more, if you are interested I will post.
[/quote]

I am interested in ANY picture or info, the more info the better

 

[hoochiepapa]

When you move to Wyoming, try to visit the Mountain Man museum in Pinedale. They have some Hawkens on display, and Chadron, Nebraska has a museum with some early rifles.
Luck to ya.

 

[galamb]

I personally have more than just a passing interest in Hawken rifles.

I am also in the camp that believes that there is no existing example of Plains styled flintlock Hawken's because NONE ever existed in the first place.

However, that doesn't mean I don't think that you can't build a fullstocked flinter that would look like one if it had of been built in their shop.

In the rifles that have survived, 58 cal is not as popular as you might think. 54 cal was probably far and away the favoured caliber amongst the guys who were keeping their "life safe" (Carson and Tobin), Mario Modena (various spellings) carried a 50 cal and Bridger carried a 52 cal.

Of the four 58 cal rifles that I have "some specs" on the lightest, a pistol gripped half stock with a 33 1/2" barrel tipped the scales at 11 lbs 2 oz (in possession of the Cody Museum).

The only full-stock 58 cal that I have seen pics of was a Maryland styled rifle that weighed 15 pounds.

Here is a pic of that one being held by a "very young" Doc White.

I am personally of the opinion that if a St. Louis "flint" Hawken ever came to light it would like this and not the Plains rifle that comes to mind when you say "Hawken rifle".

This is the Sam Hawken flint mentioned earlier in the post - again, nothing like a "Plains" rifle, but it IS a flint.

 

[tenngun]

Since you are building your own might I suggest a southern style rifle in .54, or a Henery or Dickert. Flint Hawkins would have been Maryland style and not plains style. My first build was a full stock flint Hawken, it goes very well with golden yellow Tandy buckskins.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Don Stith is one of the most knowledgeable men when dealing with Hawken rifles. He mentions flint types on his web site. His site is below:
Don Stith's web site

I've met Don at Friendship before, and he would be one of the first men I'd talk to.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Donny]

I am sure you are aware nearly all Hawkens were plain Maple. Maybe 95% ? ?
Of course, they were 1/2 stock percussion.
Fullstock flint, a different story? ? ?