• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Fusile vs Fowler for future Smoothrifle

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Jfoster

36 Cal.
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
206
Reaction score
18
Hello all. Im trying to decide between fusile or fowler to do a smooth rifle with. Ive found both in a kit format that offer a rear sight. My concern is butt area of the stock itself. I am very familiar with modern rifle/shotgun stocks in terms of shape and drop which it appears most colonial style fowlers stocks resemble. Im concerned with the fusile that the stock may be uncomfortable or awkward when fielding. Im sure it was designed the way it was for a reason, but wanted to see if others have came across issues in the past. Plan is a 20ga. Game will be mostly deer/turkey/squirrel/rabbit. I will occasionally wing shoot with whatever i go with. Not sure if that info will help.

Thanks for any help
 
Define: Fusil. Define: Fowler. Define: smooth rifle.

Fusil- Specific model would be Fusil Ordinaire type D.

Fowler- colonial or virginia tyle fowling piece with a stock profile more akin to that of a rifle.

Smoothrifle- smoothbore 20ga tapered octagon to round. 42”. With a rear sight.
 
Define: Fusil. Define: Fowler. Define: smooth rifle.

Fusil- Specific model would be Fusil de
Define: Fusil. Define: Fowler. Define: smooth rifle.

I am essentially trying to build one hunting long arm to cover the most game. Having hunted many years with slug guns as well as buckshot through rifles sights, i just prefer to have a rear sight for reference. I have used them for everything from deer to dove. My main concern is the stock profile at the butt. I dont suspect there to be any issues with the fusil (which i am leaning toward), but wanted to check with those who have gone before me.
 
Fusil De chasse can be vey punishing with the curved comb. I have never been able to shoot any of the "off the shelf " guns with out a belt in the cheek. Generally something with a straight upper comb with about 1 1/2" drop at the nose and 2 3/4" at the heel fits most people pretty well. I have never been able to wing shoot with anything with a rear sight, maybe others can, but I can't. I have never needed a rear sight on any smooth bore except a turkey gun with a lot of choke. Of course turkeys are generally standing still so it's pretty much like shooting a rifle.
You might consider a 16ga, you'll do a lot more small game hunting than deer hunting and the 16 will shoot shot better.
 
Fusil De chasse can be vey punishing with the curved comb. I have never been able to shoot any of the "off the shelf " guns with out a belt in the cheek. Generally something with a straight upper comb with about 1 1/2" drop at the nose and 2 3/4" at the heel fits most people pretty well. I have never been able to wing shoot with anything with a rear sight, maybe others can, but I can't. I have never needed a rear sight on any smooth bore except a turkey gun with a lot of choke. Of course turkeys are generally standing still so it's pretty much like shooting a rifle.
You might consider a 16ga, you'll do a lot more small game hunting than deer hunting and the 16 will shoot shot better.

The “punishment” is something i was concerned with because of the curved comb.
 
Sounds like a great project; but if you're going to shoot up trees at squirrels, don't put too much drop in the buttstock, if you do, when you raise the gun to shoot with the butt on your shoulder, the barrel will 'climb' far above your line of sight. If it is too shallow, you will be uncomfortable shooting level at game off the shoulder. Try to get a ML gunsmith to fit you up before you purchase a gun, if you can't, I find a drop of about 3 inches more or less is good (for me). 20 ga seems a little light to me for turkey, but I've never hunted them. For all around use, you can always load it heavier. I would probably build a fowler style, choked a little, a smooth rifle is just that, a rifle with a smooth bore that back in the day was probably used more with a patched ball. It was less expensive to build. Good luck and keep us informed of your choice and results! Truly, George.
 
Sounds like a great project; but if you're going to shoot up trees at squirrels, don't put too much drop in the buttstock, if you do, when you raise the gun to shoot with the butt on your shoulder, the barrel will 'climb' far above your line of sight. If it is too shallow, you will be uncomfortable shooting level at game off the shoulder. Try to get a ML gunsmith to fit you up before you purchase a gun, if you can't, I find a drop of about 3 inches more or less is good (for me). 20 ga seems a little light to me for turkey, but I've never hunted them. For all around use, you can always load it heavier. I would probably build a fowler style, choked a little, a smooth rifle is just that, a rifle with a smooth bore that back in the day was probably used more with a patched ball. It was less expensive to build. Good luck and keep us informed of your choice and results! Truly, George.

3.25” is the stated drop on the particular fusil i was looking at. However i feel i will more than likely go with a colonial style fowler in the end that has more of a rifle style stock.
 
Musket...
A heavy military arm dating back to the matchlock era. With the addition of a bayonet, they are a pike that shoots.
Fusil....
This French origin term is sometimes found as, fuzee, fuzil and fuke. A fusil is a light Musket. The term originates with the adaption of the flintlock ignition system in the second half of the 17th Century. At that time Matchlock Muskets were relatively heavy and less mobile. The new flintlock fusils were more efficient, had a higher rate of fire and lighter. These early military flintlocks were excellent for specialized light troops, Fusileers. As the turn of the 18th Century approached, most armies had adapted the flintlock fusil as the main battle weapon. The Dutch pattern light musket or fusil eventually becomes the Brown Bess. Thereafter "fusil" refers to longarms lighter than standard military muskets. Officers Fusils could simply be scaled down versions of the standard musket. The term is also used for non military guns such as trade "fusils" and hunting...fuzees and fukes.
17th Century a Fusil is a light military flintlock...
18th Century a fusil is a light musket or smooth bore hunting arm.
17th and early 18th Century trade fusils, buccaneer, Dutch, French and English trade fusils are commonly found with a rear sight. Another aspect of the fusil is that although lighter than a military musket, it tends to be heavier than a fowling piece.
Fowling Piece or Gun...
A smooth bore arm designed primarily for wing shooting. These tend to be light, graceful and have long barrels. The line fusil and fowling gun can be quite blurred, especially in North America where the fowling piece would be commonly loaded with ball thus ...more like a general purpose fusil. A fowler is not a gun but one who hunts fowl.
Shotgun...
This general term primarily refers to civilian guns such as fusils or fowling guns. By the 19th Century shotgun was a general term for civilian smoothbores replacing fusil and fowling piece. It's possible the term dates to the 18th Century. Bakeless says in his 1935 biography of Boone, " The Shawnee took the hunting parties' hides, horses and rifles. They then provided them with an old shotgun(likely a trade Fusil) and hunting pouch with a warning, Never to return. This is likely from the Draper Papers.
Smooth Rifle...
This is a firearm that has all the characteristics of a rifle but with a smooth bore. These seem to be most prominent in PA. Lehigh Valley Rifles are commonly found smooth bored. On occasion some Lebanon and Lancasters are found smooth bored.
Buck and Ball gun...
A century earlier these would have been called fusils. These are smoothbored guns that can have a mix of rifle and smoothbore architecture, for instance round barrels, rear sights,crescent butts and cheek pieces. Primarily....early 19th Century.
Smoothbore...
This is a term for all the above.
Fort Stoddart (the Choctaw Factor 1805)...." Smoothbores are virtually unsaleable to the Choctaw, They want Rifles."
 
I shoot skeet, trap, sporting clays with english fowlers, NWT gun, SXS's in flint and percussion. Hunt over 100 days a year upland game hunting with the afore mentioned guns.
With that being said. I have killed bear, deer, elk and turkeys with a fusil de chasse in 20 ga.. Have never had problems with recoil. But I have never hit anything flying with it. I"m sure there are people that can but I can't. The drop in the stock is just to much for me.
Jerry
 
My Centermark TFC is my favorite gun. The Centermark is less then a perfect copy of the originalbut the general stock shape is very close to the originals. And I find it very comfortable.
A smooth rifle was also called a rifle mounted fusil back in the day was just that, a rifle with a smooth bore. It ain’t made for wing shooting.
The officers fusil wasn’t made as a hunting gun. It’s lighter and easier to handle then a musket, and better made, it will put meat in the freezer and pay you back in fun for the money invested.
The colonal fowler is made for fowling, but will handle ball well of the three choices the fowler is probably the closest to the one gun that does it all. In twenty bore it will drop everything from Rocky to Bulwinlke, old Tom Bambi and Thumper.
The other choices will do it all to. Learning your gun an building the muscles memory to shoot your gun well is more important then shape. But my hats off to any old boy that could take a dove or two with a smooth rifle. I would rather hunt a moose with a fowler then dove with a smooth rifle.
 
My Centermark TFC is my favorite gun. The Centermark is less then a perfect copy of the originalbut the general stock shape is very close to the originals. And I find it very comfortable.
A smooth rifle was also called a rifle mounted fusil back in the day was just that, a rifle with a smooth bore. It ain’t made for wing shooting.
The officers fusil wasn’t made as a hunting gun. It’s lighter and easier to handle then a musket, and better made, it will put meat in the freezer and pay you back in fun for the money invested.
The colonal fowler is made for fowling, but will handle ball well of the three choices the fowler is probably the closest to the one gun that does it all. In twenty bore it will drop everything from Rocky to Bulwinlke, old Tom Bambi and Thumper.
The other choices will do it all to. Learning your gun an building the muscles memory to shoot your gun well is more important then shape. But my hats off to any old boy that could take a dove or two with a smooth rifle. I would rather hunt a moose with a fowler then dove with a smooth rifle.

Thanks Tenngun. Always appreciate your input.
 
In my opinion this the best English Smoothbore available.
http://dunlapwoodcrafts.com/component-sets/english-fowler-rifle

A 10 or 12 can do anything a 20 can do but....better,;) at least for upland game.
Her's on on the CM blog....Gosh what a nice Gun..
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2015/06/rifle-by-ed-wenger.html

Challenging build?" You dern tootin" but all really great guns are.

Here's another goodie....

https://www.flintlocks.com/RK-06.htm

and another...

https://www.flintlocks.com/RK-07.htm

I do believe the Chambers Smooth rifle is based off of RCA 118 (or 119 if I'm mistaken) ...the Haymaker rifle.

One thing about these English guns and Lancaster Rifles, they have a lot of English influence. Modern shooters tend to really like the looks and feel of English guns and Lancasterian Rifles.
 
In my opinion this the best English Smoothbore available.
http://dunlapwoodcrafts.com/component-sets/english-fowler-rifle

A 10 or 12 can do anything a 20 can do but....better,;) at least for upland game.
Her's on on the CM blog....Gosh what a nice Gun..
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2015/06/rifle-by-ed-wenger.html

Challenging build?" You dern tootin" but all really great guns are.

Here's another goodie....

https://www.flintlocks.com/RK-06.htm

and another...

https://www.flintlocks.com/RK-07.htm

I do believe the Chambers Smooth rifle is based off of RCA 118 (or 119 if I'm mistaken) ...the Haymaker rifle.

One thing about these English guns and Lancaster Rifles, they have a lot of English influence. Modern shooters tend to really like the looks and feel of English guns and Lancasterian Rifles.

I really like the RK07, but alas i am devil handed. Thus compounding the situation.
 
Talk to Barbie or Jim Chambers....

Request the RK-O6 PA Fowler as the architecture is so similar with no lock inlet and no sideplate inlet. See if they can special order that for you. You may have to wait on it. It's worth a shot.

Then.....substitute a LH Siler for the lock.

Inletting a lock is not a big deal.

I just checked their FAQ and looks like this is doable.
Can certain inlets, such as the sideplate, be omitted?
On special orders, yes. However, no special ordered stocks may be returned, and delivery time will be longer. There is no additional charge for this service, however.
 
Not all French guns have the "cows foot"....this Fusil Fin has a straight comb. Some of the Fusil Fin parts recovered in the South also had a unique rear sight as well
 

Attachments

  • IMAG0166.jpg
    IMAG0166.jpg
    81.2 KB
Sorry about the inverted image.....these guns have long barrels...48"+
The last picture is of the R E Davis Fine Fusil kit
 

Attachments

  • IMAG0165.jpg
    IMAG0165.jpg
    82.8 KB
  • IMAG0167.jpg
    IMAG0167.jpg
    129.2 KB
  • IMAG0163.jpg
    IMAG0163.jpg
    168.9 KB
Back
Top