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Gap between pan and barrel.

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Padre

32 Cal.
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Hi there!

I have a Pedersoli Kentucky rifle which I bought as a percussion (the dealer actually swapped the flintlock that was in it for a percussion lock).This lock has always fired without any problems. I recently bought a replacement flint lock and fitted it to my rifle. The problem I've found is that there is a .030 gap between the pan and the barrel. If I tighten the lock screws any more, the hammer will not fall because it touches against the wood. How do I fix it? I haven't been game to fire it yet as I think the powder would fall down into the lock mechanism.

Thanks for any advice,
Padre
 
If it was firing why replace the lock? As far as the gap goes you can always sweat on a piece of shim to fill up the void.
 
Thanks for the replies!
I'll try the shim and see how it goes.

The reason for changing the lock was to go from percussion to flintlock.

Padre
 
If the change to flint is to be permanent, then inletting the lock a little deeper would be the best way to go. Otherwise soldering a shim onto the lock bolster will work fine.
 
If I tighten the lock screws any more, the hammer will not fall because it touches against the wood. How do I fix it?

Use inletting black or candle soot and blacken the hammer where it rubs on the stock, install the lock back into the rifle and work it several times, remove the lock and then slowly remove the blackend areas of the stock, repeat as necessary until the bolster of the lock makes up to the barrel.

If you no longer get black around the hammer area and the lock still doesn't make up to the barrel then you need to blacken the internals of the lock and check for high spots in the lock mortice.

Hope this helps
 
If you put a shim on the lock bolster you are still going to have a gap where the frizzen mates with tthe barrel. Not good. I recommend inletting the lock deeper. Use soot from a candle on the lock and parts to see where the wood needs removed to allow the lock to mate against the barrel.
 
Padre said:
there is a .030 gap between the pan and the barrel

I experienced a gap of almost every TC Hawken caplock I converted to Flint, and inletted the lock mortise deeper to get a metal to metal seal...just go slow and be careful you don't let a wood chisel slip out and scratch the stock around the mortise. :redface:
 
I used lead from a round ball hammered flat to fill a gap between pan and barrel, works great and is form fitting, and easily replaced. Just lay it on barrel when replacing lock, tighten lock screws like normal.
 
Almost all kit guns, and many parts guns( there is a difference) leave extra wood so that you can finish the mortise to a particular lock plate and barrel combination. Even when a mortise is cut for a lock, its expected that the builder complete the mortise by making it as deep as necessary to bring lock plate against the barrel. The soot blackening and wood removal method has been described adequately already here.

Unfortunately, some commercially made rifles show up with a gap between the barrel and lock plate. Your choice is to return the gun, or to " fix it " by redoing the lock plate inletting properly. I read about people using Brass and lead or even tin " shim " to fill in the gaps and simply cringe. Usually the use of these devices will result in a tipped lock plate in the mortise, and other problems result with the function of the lock itself. I am also sure that some of the members here who have recommended " Shimming " have done it " right " and are experiencing no problems, YET.

If there is a weakness in the side lock design, its that the lock plate mortise leaves so little wood to support the barrel and butt stock, its easy to understand why cracks in stocks occurred in this area. I also have seen badly cocked lock plates due to some folks getting too agressive with a screw driver every time they " tighten " a lock plate bolt. I saw one gun- not very old- where the lock bolt was intering with the operation of the cock, because it was sticking out of the plate too far. When I held the rifle up to the light I could clearly see that the wood above the lock bolt had been splintered and crushed next to that bolt hole, and the plate drawn into the wood to the point that the lock would NOT function. I passed on that " deal ". I understand how such a thing happens, but really, it began with someone not understand how little wood there is under that lock plate to support it in the stock.

So, do the job right. You can cut away the wood with sharp chisels and an Exacto knife, and if you smoke the metal parts and then mark the high spots on the wood to remove, you should have no probem provided you go slow and shave wood off rather than attempt to do this in one step.

When you get the lockplate seated against the barrel correctly, there will be wood standing out from the lock plate, leaving it sitting down in a " hole ". That can be more easily removed by using sand paper and a block of wood to remove the wood evenly, down to the plate. Yes, you may have to refinish the stock, or want to, but that will also teach you about stock finishing, and let you put a much nicer finish to your rifle than anything coming out of a factory. I have seen some stocks where only the area that was reduced was restained and then refinished, and the color and finish were blended perfectly with the existing finish. Its worth trying to do. If it doesn't look right, you can go ahead and strip down the finish and redo the entire stock.

Most shooters who live long enough have a rifle that has seen more than its fair share of dinks, dents, and scratches over the years, and deserves to be refinished to show its glory and beauty again. So, the stock gets refinished, either by the owner, or by someone he hires to do it. I have refinished gunstocks for several relatives, and friends, and they have always been shocked to see how Pretty the wood in the stock is under all those years of accumulated dirt, oil, UV light dulling and yellowing the finishes, and minus those dinks, dents, and scratches. One man told me he honestly expected to see the stock without the scratches but wanted to know how I got out all the dinks and dents? ( steam) Another had a gun that the factory " painted " brown, and was in shock to see the grain of the wood underneath that brown paint when I returned his gun with the stock stained and then finished with hand rubbed oil. He told me that unless he had the serial number for the gun, he would not have recognized his own gun.

So, don't hestitate to do the job right because you may have to refinish the stock, too. That is also a great learning experience, and there is a lot of advice on how this is done down under the Gun Builder's Bench topic here on the forum. We are here to help you through all of this work, as many of have been where you are now.

Yes, I too have had to reseat a lock plate to get rid of the barrel/plate gap at the bolster, or flashpan. In doing so on one rifle, I had clearance problems result with the ramrod hole, Which I resolved by reducing the diameter of the end of the ramrod. And these problems occur with both flintlocks, and percussion locks, where, fitting the lockplate properly may result in having to bend the percussion hammer to realign it properly with the nipple!
 
Is there a relief behind the cock? The present lock may rquire a deeper relief than the old lock but if so this is a really simple fix. Just take down the area slowly until the cock no longer binds. This can be done by scraping with a pen knife to keep wood removal under control.
 
Most stocks have some kind of relieved area in the wood above the lock plate, and behind the cock. This allows the cock to move freely back and forth. The same is seen in percussion guns. Its a simply matter of using scrapers to carefuly remove ONLY so much wood as to allow the needed clearance.

Remember, this is the fragile area of a gunstock. You can give it some strength today by putting a thin coat of epoxy resin in the lock mortise when you finish it. After the epoxy sets up and dries thoroughly, you may find, by smoking the lock internal parts, that you again have clearance problems. This is " fixed " by cutting or grind away the high spots of epoxy. The epoxy that remains will still strengthen this area of the stock, over what it is without the extra step.
 
I agree with Paul in that the best way to correct the gap would be to inlet the lock deeper. However, I disagree that a shim will result in a cocked lockplate; when using a shim of the correct thickness (or filed to that thickness) you are just building up that slight area between the pan and barrel to close it up. That is only about 1/32", maybe some heavy sheet metal scrap would suffice. That said, the same 1/32" is not much at all to inlet the lock deeper. Emery
 
I have to agree with mazo. Last summer I saw an example of a gun with a lock that did not fit flush against the barrel as well as the stock. When enough powder eventually found its way underneath the lock and spark intern found it, the result was a nasty flash that came out around the trigger as well as through the original gaps. The shooter was not permanently damaged but very shaken up with a very sore trigger finger.

remove the wood that is interfering the lock seating properly and also make very sure the fit between the lock and the barrel are exact. :hatsoff:
 
Thank you all for your advice!
There are so many people here with a wealth of knowledge and experience, and willing to help; I am very appreciative. :bow:

Padre
 
patriot59 said:
I used lead from a round ball hammered flat to fill a gap between pan and barrel, works great and is form fitting, and easily replaced. Just lay it on barrel when replacing lock, tighten lock screws like normal.

The problem with this solution is the frizzen will still have a gap when closed on the pan. A shim under the lock bolster is not going to remedy that. Inletting the lock deeper will solve the problem perfectly.

Word economy without a thesis. :wink:
 
I use a shim of leather between the pan and barrel to fill any gap, fitting it level with the pan and snipping it out to allow for the flash hole. Don't leave it higher than the pan or the frizzen won't close properly. Choose a thickness similar to the gap. Leather will allow for some compression as you tighten the lock bolt(s) and keep pan powder from spilling beneath the flintlock. I change the leather piece as part of cleaning.

Tom
 
Then what do you do about the gap between the frizzen and the barrel?
That leather between the lock plate and the barrel ain't going up that high without covering the touch hole.

That's why I say inlet the lock deeper.
Third time is a charm???
 
padre, check the inside face of the pan fence where it rests against the barrel flat. i've had two rifles where this was the case and it held the rest of the lock out of alignment. i ground it down a bit till i had the tolerance.
 
Padre,

You may have two problems with your lock fit. It may need to be inlet deeper, it may just be your cock hitting on wood or it may be a combination of both. If I had to pick one I would say the stock wood needs to be relieved for cock clearance. Flintlock locks need more clearance because the cock has a small shelf like cut on the back of the cock that actually comes to rest on the lock plate. The hammer on a percussion does not come to rest on the lock plate so little if any clearance is cut in the stock wood for clearance of the hammer on a percussion lock. Switching from a percussion lock to a flintlock usually requires that wood be removed for cock clearance.

In order to find out which problem you have take the cock off the lock and see if the lock will then fit flush to the barrel. If it doesn't, then inlet the lock deeper. After getting the lock, without the cock on it, flush with the barrel then reinstall the cock and see if it interfers with the stock and cut out enough for clearance if it does interfer.

Putting a shim on the lock bolster is definately not the proper way to solve your problem. No qualified gunsmith would recommend such a fix. If you don't think you can do what I have described above then take the rifle to a qualified gunsmith and get a proper repair.

Randy Hedden
 
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