I use Goex 3f in my pan but Buffalo Arms also has 4f in supply. Brian
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Goex 4F out of Stock
- Thread starter Doc Ivory
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Which burns hotter in the Pan? Crushed down Goex? Or PDEX? Would all the Chemists and Physicists please weigh in...
Pyrodex burns alot hotter than real black. Blackpowder- 390, Pyrodex - 740. Brian
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DeadeyeChristasdad
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Ummmm.... nope. But I'll be sure to let you know if I find one.You know a priming powder that likes moisture? I'll buy it right away...
so if I made pan powder from PDEX that would be better than 4F?
I have much success with grinding 3f in a small porcelain Mortar and Pestle. It is instant ignite in the pan. I carry two Tresso pan primers. And by the way, I did what you good people suggested and drilled my vent hole out to 1/16. Sure fire! ESPERANCE!
sussexmuzllodr Use Black Powder. Pyrodex is pretty much useless for use as a powder in the pan.
Ballshooter
50 Cal.
I grind down 3F but I am lazy and just use 3F from my horn. 95% of the time.
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hanshi
Cannon
I normally use and prefer 4F for prime. However I no longer have any and have been out of it a few times in the past. I couldn't actually tell any difference when I used 3F in the pan; it worked just fine.
Recently I did a bit of testing to see if there was any difference when using 4F or 3F in the pan. I used my (more accurate that I am) 36 caliber SMR with the L&R Manton lock. I set my measure for 35 grains of 3fg powder to send my 0.350 Ball wrapped in my 0.017 drill cloth lubricated with the 1 part water soluble oil to 7 parts water to the target 25 yards downrange.
It was a bit windy with the wind coming from my left. That is my excuse for the relatively large groups.
I started by shooting 5 shots using 4FG in the pan to set a base line observation. That's 3 balls in the one large whole.
Then I shot one shot with 3Fg in the pan and alternated with a shot using 4F in the pan.
First the 3Fg pan primed target after 5 shots.
Now the target with five shots using 4F in the pan.
Groups are relatively the same size. I find it interesting that the group using 3Fg in the pan is about an inch to the right. Since I shot alternating between the two pan powders, I don't have an explanation. Both used about the same number of grains in the half filled pan. I don't think that the 3Fg powder pushed the stock to the left. I did not feel any difference in lock time. Perhaps those few milliseconds of delay do mean something. I wiped the barrel with a patch dampened with rubbing alcohol. I fired from a rest using the same hold. I alternated the shots to minimize the any differences in range conditions. I used the same flint and I knapped the edge after four shots to ensure that I had a sharp flint.
First take away: 3Fg in the pan is fine to use.
Second: Group size didn't change enough to be a concern.
Third: Why did the group move to the right?
It was a bit windy with the wind coming from my left. That is my excuse for the relatively large groups.
I started by shooting 5 shots using 4FG in the pan to set a base line observation. That's 3 balls in the one large whole.
Then I shot one shot with 3Fg in the pan and alternated with a shot using 4F in the pan.
First the 3Fg pan primed target after 5 shots.
Now the target with five shots using 4F in the pan.
Groups are relatively the same size. I find it interesting that the group using 3Fg in the pan is about an inch to the right. Since I shot alternating between the two pan powders, I don't have an explanation. Both used about the same number of grains in the half filled pan. I don't think that the 3Fg powder pushed the stock to the left. I did not feel any difference in lock time. Perhaps those few milliseconds of delay do mean something. I wiped the barrel with a patch dampened with rubbing alcohol. I fired from a rest using the same hold. I alternated the shots to minimize the any differences in range conditions. I used the same flint and I knapped the edge after four shots to ensure that I had a sharp flint.
First take away: 3Fg in the pan is fine to use.
Second: Group size didn't change enough to be a concern.
Third: Why did the group move to the right?
I stocked up on what I thought I would need for powder in anticipation of acquiring a flintlock, unfortunately I ended up with cancer first.
Still like to find a Fowler for hunting around here, but I’m happy to have had the experiences I have had.
Still like to find a Fowler for hunting around here, but I’m happy to have had the experiences I have had.
So basically what we can deduce from this experiment is that 4f is NOT a pan powder because in retrospect it is not necessary!
If you want to really improve that wee rifles shooting and make folk sit up and notice, tip 4f down the barrel and use what ever in the pan!
What I was trying to deduce is that 4F is not necessarily the only pan powder. but what is the effect of using different grades of pan powder. Other granulations of powder can work in the pan. In my King's Musket, I regularly use the same powder as in my paper cartridge which is 2F.So basically what we can deduce from this experiment is that 4f is NOT a pan powder because in retrospect it is not necessary!
If you want to really improve that wee rifles shooting and make folk sit up and notice, tip 4f down the barrel and use what ever in the pan!
And if I can occasionally get one hole groups with my 3F main charge and 4F in the pan, well, I'm probably not going to change anytime soon. I have more 3F stored than 4F at the present time. I do agree, though, that a charge of 30 grains of 4F as my main charge isn't a dangerous load in my 36 caliber rifle.
TrapperDude
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The other day, I stopped by a local place that sells Goex to get a bottle of fffg, and I said to the guy that I'd ask for ffffG, but there probably isn't any in stock. Amazingly enough, he said they did, so I got a bottle of each grade of powder. I was pretty pleased with that.
Nevertheless, my Traditions Trapper is the first flintlock I've ever had, and when I got it, there was no ffffG, so I just primed with fffG. I had absolutely no failures, except for once when I forgot to put powder down the bore because I was yacking with the RSO, and when my flint wore down too far.
Nevertheless, my Traditions Trapper is the first flintlock I've ever had, and when I got it, there was no ffffG, so I just primed with fffG. I had absolutely no failures, except for once when I forgot to put powder down the bore because I was yacking with the RSO, and when my flint wore down too far.
The 4F vs ?F for priming question seems to come up every so often - with similar replies. I seem to recall one of Zonie's posts pointing to a F test that was done... Priming Powder Timing
The test results show a slight difference in ignition speeds from GOEX 4F to 2F, about 20 ms (that's 1/50th of a second). Not much to be worried about.
The test results show a slight difference in ignition speeds from GOEX 4F to 2F, about 20 ms (that's 1/50th of a second). Not much to be worried about.
A quick reference chart. Vertical scale is ignition time in seconds.
As the chart shows, ignition delays run from just under 40ms for Swiss Null B to just under 70ms for GOEX 2F.
Average ignition time for GOEX 3F is about 10ms longer than GOEX 4F.
