Going public!

[TFoley]

Thanks all.
I don't think I have missed anything.
The only special provision mentioned for muzzleloaders is that the barrel length is to be calculated from the ignition point.

I have no doubt that they are trying to close the door on using a muzzleloader this way on a shotgun license however they also despite there being no law banning the use of a rifle for hunting they will not issue a firearm licence for such!
Go figure!
B.

The Firearms Act of 1967 refers to the minimum length of a smooth-bore barrel as 24", qualifying it as a shotgun. Anything shorter and it becomes a Section 1 firearm - a whole different category of firearms that includes ALL legal-to-possess-in-yUK rifled firearms and shotguns designed to hold more than three cartridges, ie, those used by practical shotgunners., wild-fowlers et al.

The 1967 Act also covers the use of single projectiles in a smooth-bore firearm. If you want to shoot a single projectile in a smooth-bore firearm - ANY smooth-bore firearm, modern, old or reproduction - then you need to be in possession of a Section 1 Firearms certificate - period.

Zonie - nobody here in UK has ever gone on trial for shooting a ball in a smooth-bore firearm. This is not the USA, where such activities are commonplace, but the yUK, where shooting ball with muzzleloaders at live game ceased in the latter part of the 19th century with the invention of the m******c c*******e. I'm 73, and I've NEVER heard of anybody apart from Mr Smoothy shooting in this manner. Sadly, here in UK he appears to breaking the laws by using a smooth-bore firearm, classed here as a shotgun, as a Section 1 firearm, without the benefit of a Firearms Certificate. This is NOT a laughing matter here in yUK. Unless, of course, he DOES have a Firearms Certificate [he has never mentioned it before], and it is already noted on it.

Also, wardens cannot arrest you or detain you, although law enforcement officers - presumably you mean police - can.

My best advice to Mr Smoothy is to give BASC a call toot sweet.

BTW, Bisley is NOT a shooting club, but a venue where a number of shooting clubs, and the three three Armed Services, use the facilities. It is also the host location to the European and Commonwealth TR/F-TR and small-bore comps, as well as a venue for most European nations to shoot long range, as it has ranges out to 1200 yards. It is the Alma Mater of the UK NRA and NRSA, too, and the location of the Lord Robert's Centre for Shooting Excellence

I'm afraid, too, that Mr Smoothy's liaison officer - in my county they are called Firearms Enquiries Officers - seems to be a total dwong, as most of us here would attest. Davide Pedersoli makes world class muzzleloading firearms that dominate the world championships every year.

 

[Bo T]

From what I have heard, Brit is guilty until proven innocent.

 

[hanshi]

Wow, Nate; I didn't realize that you were a hardened criminal.

Seriously, though, George Orwell knew exactly what would happen in the UK. Even OUR Constitution appears fragile nowadays. And the little water deer is so cute that the Disney crowd might bring back lynching; so don't mess with them.

 

[Britsmoothy]

The Firearms Act of 1967 refers to the minimum length of a smooth-bore barrel as 24", qualifying it as a shotgun. Anything shorter and it becomes a Section 1 firearm - a whole different category of firearms that includes ALL legal-to-possess-in-yUK rifled firearms and shotguns designed to hold more than three cartridges, ie, those used by practical shotgunners., wild-fowlers et al.

The 1967 Act also covers the use of single projectiles in a smooth-bore firearm. If you want to shoot a single projectile in a smooth-bore firearm - ANY smooth-bore firearm, modern, old or reproduction - then you need to be in possession of a Section 1 Firearms certificate - period.

Zonie - nobody here in UK has ever gone on trial for shooting a ball in a smooth-bore firearm. This is not the USA, where such activities are commonplace, but the yUK, where shooting ball with muzzleloaders at live game ceased in the latter part of the 19th century with the invention of the m******c c*******e. I'm 73, and I've NEVER heard of anybody apart from Mr Smoothy shooting in this manner. Sadly, here in UK he appears to breaking the laws by using a smooth-bore firearm, classed here as a shotgun, as a Section 1 firearm, without the benefit of a Firearms Certificate. This is NOT a laughing matter here in yUK. Unless, of course, he DOES have a Firearms Certificate [he has never mentioned it before], and it is already noted on it.

Also, wardens cannot arrest you or detain you, although law enforcement officers - presumably you mean police - can.

My best advice to Mr Smoothy is to give BASC a call toot sweet.

BTW, Bisley is NOT a shooting club, but a venue where a number of shooting clubs, and the three three Armed Services, use the facilities. It is also the host location to the European and Commonwealth TR/F-TR and small-bore comps, as well as a venue for most European nations to shoot long range, as it has ranges out to 1200 yards. It is the Alma Mater of the UK NRA and NRSA, too, and the location of the Lord Robert's Centre for Shooting Excellence

I'm afraid, too, that Mr Smoothy's liaison officer - in my county they are called Firearms Enquiries Officers - seems to be a total dwong, as most of us here would attest. Davide Pedersoli makes world class muzzleloading firearms that dominate the world championships every year.

Can you please point my to the letter of the law that says "ANY" smoothbore gun please?

 

[Shot deer]

http://www.marplerifleandpistolclub.org.uk/general/gunlaw.htm

Not sure how reliable this is, but you can scroll down to the shotgun section, and see for yourself. Also, sorry if the link doesn't work, my first link you know.

Disclaimer: read the disclaimer on the web page.

SD

 

[Britsmoothy]

I have just read again the UK guidance to the police of firearms and licensing law and there is no restrictions placed on what kind of projectiles can be discharged from a smooth bored muzzleloader. Any and all restrictions are via loaded ammunition for shotguns held on shotgun license.
The fact that a muzzleloader shotgun has to be held on a shotgun licence does not mean the loaded ammunition restrictions apply because how could they!
If I can supply good reason for using loaded slug ammunition for shotguns I can be granted a firearms license which would give me authority to acquire such ammunition.
There are no restrictions on the acquiring lead balls.
There are no restrictions on a shotgun certificate other than ( in this case) that can relate to a muzzleloader smooth bore as they don't use the ammunition that thus restricts shotguns to bird shot and buck shot loadings.
After all that the home secretary has handed the power to revoke a licence by the police whenever they feel appropriate.
It's just a shame they had not done that in the past over few nut cases but to suddenly jump on a country man hunting rabbits and other small game is crazy.

 

[SDSmlf]

Can you please point my to the letter of the law that says "ANY" smoothbore gun please?

These screenshots are from the link Shot Deer provided. If a valid link to the law, it is not looking good for the home team.

 

[TFoley]

Guidelines to the Firearms Act -

2.53 A shotgun certificate is not required to possess or acquire shotgun cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which exceeds .36 inch in diameter. All ordinary shot cartridges are covered by this description. However, a shotgun certificate (or firearm certificate authorising possession of a section 1 shotgun) is normally required to purchase shotgun cartridges. All single bulleted ammunition, for example solid slug, spherical ball or projectiles for birdscaring equipment, is subject to the requirement for a firearm certificate.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Guidelines to the Firearms Act -

2.53 A shotgun certificate is not required to possess or acquire shotgun cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which exceeds .36 inch in diameter. All ordinary shot cartridges are covered by this description. However, a shotgun certificate (or firearm certificate authorising possession of a section 1 shotgun) is normally required to purchase shotgun cartridges. All single bulleted ammunition, for example solid slug, spherical ball or projectiles for birdscaring equipment, is subject to the requirement for a firearm certificate.

That applies to loaded ammunition for breech loaders.
There is no subsection for muzzleloaders.

 

[TFoley]

Mr Britsmoothy - we are trying to help you here, not to enter into a long-distance c*apping match with you.

If you are currently shooting a single projectile through your smooth-bore firearm, held under the provisions of a Shotgun Certificate, then you ARE breaking the law here in yUK.

Everybody in my gun club of over four hundred people who shoots ball in a smooth-bore firearms, for example, a Brown Bess, Tenegashima or Charleville musket, has an FAC that authorises them to do so.

You must do as you think fit.

I have nothing more to add to this thread, whether or not you like the law, it is the law here in yUK.

 

[Britsmoothy]

These screenshots are from the link Shot Deer provided. If a valid link to the law, it is not looking good for the home team.
View attachment 9805
View attachment 9806

The restrictions quoted are via loaded ammunition.
The law makers should of given a subsection to further restrict muzzleloaders held on a shotgun license from using a single ball in my opinion.

 

[Shot deer]

I'm not sure how to do screenshots so if you want evidence from the article, you'll have to go on it again~ Read the muzzleloader section. Some good info there, if the article is right.

 

[Shot deer]

The restrictions quoted are via loaded ammunition.
The law makers should of given a subsection to further restrict muzzleloaders held on a shotgun license from using a single ball in my opinion.

Quite frankly, I'd dont even know why it would be illegal to shoot a single projectile out of a smoothbore muzzleloader. :donno: Brit, maybe you could ask the "liaison officer"?

 

[Britsmoothy]

Mr Britsmoothy - we are trying to help you here, not to enter into a long-distance c*apping match with you.

If you are currently shooting a single projectile through your smooth-bore firearm, held under the provisions of a Shotgun Certificate, then you ARE breaking the law here in yUK.

Everybody in my gun club of over four hundred people who shoots ball in a smooth-bore firearms, for example, a Brown Bess, Tenegashima or Charleville musket, has an FAC that authorises them to do so.

You must do as you think fit.

I have nothing more to add to this thread, whether or not you like the law, it is the law here in yUK.

That is fine and thank you.
I have already stated that I will be sticking to shot from now on.

Despite that I still do not see any restrictions in law

 

[Britsmoothy]

Quite frankly, I'd dont even know why it would be illegal to shoot a single projectile out of a smoothbore muzzleloader. :donno: Brit, maybe you could ask the "laison officer"?

Exactly buddy.
Dozens of unmentionable rifles have been owned by me with the necessary licensing but to use a ball from a long rifle or smoothrifle for hunting is ludicrous somehow!

 

[curator]

When our elite politicians point to the UKs "common sense" gun regulations as a model for us here in the United States, remember this thread!

 

[Treestalker]

Wow, Nate; I didn't realize that you were a hardened criminal.

Seriously, though, George Orwell knew exactly what would happen in the UK. Even OUR Constitution appears fragile nowadays. And the little water deer is so cute that the Disney crowd might bring back lynching; so don't mess with them.

And the Queen of New Zealand (HRH the PM) wonders why Americans can't just pass some more GUN CONTROL. Lady, it should be obvious to the blind that it does NOT WORK. Florida, Illinois, Ohio, California, Port Arthur, and now Christ Church etc, all attacked and the only people who die are the innocent. I'm convinced that one or two people in every room of every public building with a derringer pistol would be enough to stop an ocean of bloodshed, and I think anyone who wants to should be able to pack a pistol anywhere for defence against psychotic live shooters. It's not much, but it beats a politicians promise. Would HRH the PM be willing to accept responsibility for the next shooting in a place that has her gun control in effect? I'm talking death penalty, just like she has legislated to the next victims. The American Sioux Indians have a proverb 'It is easy to be brave from a distance' George.(Apologies to Hanshi for usurping his reply to this thread).

 

[SDSmlf]

The restrictions quoted are via loaded ammunition.
The law makers should of given a subsection to further restrict muzzleloaders held on a shotgun license from using a single ball in my opinion.

I know my opinion doesn’t matter, and I doubt yours will matter either. What will matter is the opinion from the Home Office and how they interpret the restrictions. What I read below is if a muzzleloading firearm is actually used, the same restrictions apply as they do to a modern breech-loading firearm. Without some specific statement in the law to the contrary, you may have a real problem.

 

[Shot deer]

Exactly buddy.
Dozens of unmentionable rifles have been owned by me with the necessary licensing but to use a ball from a long rifle or smoothrifle for hunting is ludicrous somehow!

Law makers are weird sometimes, because they'll let something slide that should be penalized, but yet something as simple and should-be lawful gets the penalty! How nice of them! Keep us posted (if you will.....)

Edit: They heavily regulate some good things, and hold close some of the bad things. (Sort of figure of speech)Why do would they do it I wonder? Ah ha! They only listen to the people that agree with them. Just an innocent post..... Boy, how auto correct can be your friend or enemy!

SD

 

[Britsmoothy]

I know my opinion doesn’t matter, and I doubt yours will matter either. What will matter is the opinion from the Home Office and how they interpret the restrictions. What I read below is if a muzzleloading firearm is actually used, the same restrictions apply as they do to a modern breech-loading firearm. Without some specific statement in the law to the contrary, you may have a real problem.
View attachment 9810

I have not read anything that substantiates that quote in the guidance to police document for smooth bored muzzleloaders
I assume at this moment that is an assumption lol.