Going public!

[wcubed]

Wait a second here, let me get this straight.

So it's ok to load buck shot in your muzzleloader. Now I don't know what caliber your shot is in the U.K., but across the pond, we have up to 000 Buck, which is .36 caliber.

So technically, you could have a .36 caliber small game muzzleloader, and you can't load it with a single .36 caliber ball, but it's ok to load multiple .36 caliber balls in your 12 gauge muzzleloader?

Let's take it even further. What if you load a single .36 caliber ball in your 12 gauge? Are you now breaking the law?

 

[Britsmoothy]

Wait a second here, let me get this straight.

So it's ok to load buck shot in your muzzleloader. Now I don't know what caliber your shot is in the U.K., but across the pond, we have up to 000 Buck, which is .36 caliber.

So technically, you could have a .36 caliber small game muzzleloader, and you can't load it with a single .36 caliber ball, but it's ok to load multiple .36 caliber balls in your 12 gauge muzzleloader?

Let's take it even further. What if you load a single .36 caliber ball in your 12 gauge? Are you now breaking the law?

You are correct sir. Your logic is similar to mine and that is my pit fall! You and I apply common sense and can think for our selves but over here it is to be discouraged, severely!
And a single .36" or single 000 buck in a 12g hull is illegal.....lol.

 

[Zonie]

I agree with you SDSmlf.

The text clearly says that if a muzzleloading firearm is going to actually be shot then all of the rules for modern breech loaders apply to them.
That would include any rules or restrictions on the components that make the ammunition that can be used for modern guns.

Simply put, if shooting slugs or bore size round balls out of a modern cartridge smooth bore without the correct license is against the law, then it is likewise against the law to shoot them out of a muzzle loader.

 

[SDSmlf]

I have not read anything that substantiates that quote in the guidance to police document for smooth bored muzzleloaders
I assume at this moment that is an assumption lol.

Now may be a good time to melt down every lead ball you have that is over 36 caliber. And you may also want consider ‘lawyering up’ now that you have drawn some attention to yourself.

 

[TFoley]

Sgc
You are correct, minimum of 5, 0.36" or 9 mm ball to qualify as shotgun cartridge, solid shot or slug is FAC territory. I wonder if his gun is choked and what pressure single ball develops? David
PS he's in deep doodoo if he gets caught!

 

[Shot deer]

WARNING: enter this website at your own risk! This DOES NOT represent my views, so don't hold me accountable! I am using this as it seems to align with Britsmoothy's problem. This sounds like a commercial lol. Also, I am not using anything political from this!
SD



https://theconversation.com/criminals-are-using-antique-weapons-due-to-a-loophole-in-uk-law-102666

 

[Britsmoothy]

Just to add. I could tip five

I agree with you SDSmlf.

The text clearly says that if a muzzleloading firearm is going to actually be shot then all of the rules for modern breech loaders apply to them.
That would include any rules or restrictions on the components that make the ammunition that can be used for modern guns.

Simply put, if shooting slugs or bore size round balls out of a modern cartridge smooth bore without the correct license is against the law, then it is likewise against the law to shoot them out of a muzzle loader.

The only thing in response to that I have is that I have not seen that in the PDF document from the home office to the police!
If anything it is evidence of how easy it is to presume!
Yes, a muzzleloading rifle can only be held on a firearm certificate/license and is subject to conditions of use stated on an individual's licence just the same as a breech loader .
Again. There are no conditions of use for a shotgun license other than ammunition loaded with shot larger than .36 and less than five count or single ball or slug.
If the letter of the law was written thus, no smooth bored shotgun held on a shotgun licence can propel a.....etc that would encompass all.

Again, I now have to stick to loose shot for illogical reasons. It's okay, been married for decades, I get illogical now!

 

[wcubed]

You are correct sir. Your logic is similar to mine and that is my pit fall! You and I apply common sense and can think for our selves but over here it is to be discouraged, severely!
And a single .36" or single 000 buck in a 12g hull is illegal.....lol.

So you shove a typical 000 buck load in your muzzleloader. Seven of the .36 caliber balls fall out. You are now a criminal!

You can't make this stuff up.

 

[SDSmlf]

So you shove a typical 000 buck load in your muzzleloader. Seven of the .36 caliber balls fall out. You are now a criminal!

You can't make this stuff up.

Common sense.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Now may be a good time to melt down every lead ball you have that is over 36 caliber. And you may also want consider ‘lawyering up’ now that you have drawn some attention to yourself.

Sir, there is no restriction on owning ball.
Unless I am oblivious how can having in possession a non illegal inanimate object convict?

 

[Britsmoothy]

So you shove a typical 000 buck load in your muzzleloader. Seven of the .36 caliber balls fall out. You are now a criminal!

You can't make this stuff up.

No bud, it's better than that.
I can put more 000 in. It says no less than 5 count!
I could roll five +000 down my .45 and be legal!
Go figure.

 

[Shot deer]

Sir, there is no restriction on owning ball.
Unless I am oblivious how can having in possession a non illegal inanimate object convict?

Because people are weird. seriously I agree with you.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Because people are weird. seriously I agree with you.

Very weird yes!

 

[Shot deer]

One thing that bothers me is, what crime would anyone want to commit with muzzleloaders?
There is plenty more things the government could focus on, like, say, "things" in the hands of people who, well, are not fit to have them. All I could say to them would be, leave people alone who are doing the right thing even if it's not by their strict standards! In my opinion, you should be left alone. But hay, make the best out of it!

 

[SDSmlf]

Sir, there is no restriction on owning ball.
Unless I am oblivious how can having in possession a non illegal inanimate object convict?

I do not no the gun laws in Britain, and struggle understanding them from state to state on this side of the pond.

I left New York State 25 years ago, and as I remember the law on blackpowder pistols, you could own one without a permit. As long as you didn’t possess powder, cap and ball. Then the pistol needed to be on your permit.

Extending that ‘common sense’ to to your situation, it may be more difficult to explain away the charge that you were shooting full caliber round balls out of your muzzleloading shotgun if the authorities find full caliber round balls in your shooting bag.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I do not no the gun laws in Britain, and struggle understanding them from state to state on this side of the pond.

I left New York State 25 years ago, and as I remember the law on blackpowder pistols, you could own one without a permit. As long as you didn’t possess powder, cap and ball. Then the pistol needed to be on your permit.

Extending that ‘common sense’ to to your situation, it may be more difficult to explain away the charge that you were shooting full caliber round balls out of your muzzleloading shotgun if the authorities find full caliber round balls in your shooting bag.

Ah, yes of course. If they are in the bag yes.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Ummm I wonder if I can get five 000 to come out of the 45 good enough for small game!
Bessy surely could handle 12 of them!
Hmmm

 

[Einsiedler]

Ummm I wonder if I can get five 000 to come out of the 45 good enough for small game!
Bessy surely could handle 12 of them!
Hmmm

Britsmoothy,

I dunno if this helps, but I killed a whitetail doe with 5, .440 RB’s fired out of a 24 gauge Northwest Gun over 35 years ago. I think I was using a 70 grain load. I think FFFG. Hit her good with all 5 balls at about 35 yds. It’s all I had, ammo-wise at the time! She did not run. Bang-flop.

Good luck!!!

 

[Shot deer]

Ummm I wonder if I can get five 000 to come out of the 45 good enough for small game!
Bessy surely could handle 12 of them!
Hmmm

Good thought, and I don't see why not!

 

[Juice Jaws]

I am reading some post that sounds like we in the U.S.A. are telling Britsmoothy what the gun laws in England mean, I think Brit knows what he is talking about and I wish well.