Gonna Shoot The Renegade Today

[jimbo15563]

I'm headed out to the back 40 and make some smoke. I want to work up my hunting load for this season. I also want to work on the dependability of the lock. I sold my Omega In@%&*% and would like to leave the 30-30 at home during the regular gun season. However, I have 3 tags to fill and my family and friends want:

Jimbo's Jalapeno-Cheese Deer Bologna

I'll to spend the time necessary to make sure the rifle's shooting better than I can. I took it apart down to bare wood and cleaned everything. I still have some spark issues which I'll try to address today. I have the old-style lock and frizzen. I intend to send it back to TC for the upgrade, but I have concerns about their turnaround time during the busy season. If I can get it to fire 99%, I'll wait until February. I ordered the Black English Flints but they haven't arrived yet, so I'm using the TC agates. Here's my current setup:

It seems tight enough, but the flint touches the frizzen on half cock. This particular combination doesn't give me the tiny bit of space I would like to have, so Im taking some leather along so I can make changes.

I last shot it briefly 2 weeks ago, but I got a phone call which cut the session short. The results follow:

I finished a 20-year old can of Goex FFG and will start with 70 grains of some new FFFG. I was using spit patches between shots and they didn't settle down until the 4th, 5th, and 6th shots. Today I'll try TC bore cleaner followed by a dry patch and see it that improves the consistency. I also need to work on the sight adjustment, which is a pain because it doesn't click. What I'd like to accomplish today is to get it shooting 4 inches high dead center at 40 paces.

My ultimate goal is to have a maximum point-blank range of 120 paces and be able to hit a paper plate consistently at that range shooting offhand. Today is the first step towards that goal.

Jimbo

 

[Bill Bryan]

I had a flintlock renegade a while back. I sold it to a friend who wanted to start shooting flintlocks. It has a good sight picture and I liked the way it held off-hand. The second finger trigger guard helps you hold it into your shoulder when your hands get sweaty. You should have no problem keeping it on a pie plate at a 100 yards. The TC flints never did very good for me. I prefer the black or gray 3/4" English flints. The old TC lock chops them up pretty fast. I do recommend you get the new style lock.

 

[lonewolf5347]

jimbo15563: I just return my lock off my Renegade flinter in 54 cal. return time was 5 days,mailed it on Monday was back to me on Friday.I would make it ATT: Tim Pancurak (service manager)
I found that my renegade likes 95 grains of 3f goex a wad and a 230 grain RB.I will say the gun will group softball groups at the 100 yard target,if for some reason you keep the lock until after hunting season I found bevel up will improve a good shower of sparks with 4f priming powder in the pan,I find 3 grains of powder work well for me.
You will see the difference with the 3/4 black english flints.
I would also recommend the new t/c ventliner that install with the allen key.
good luck :redthumb:

 

[gam3835]

If you are concerned about your flint setting too close to your frizzen when on half cock, cut a notch in the leather pad you use around your flint. From looking at the photo of the flint's placement in the cock, there is a lot of leather between the cock screw and the back of the flint and it prevents you from setting the flint any deeper into the cock jaws. All you need to do is take a piece of leather, fold it and cut a small notch where it folds. This will allow the leather to slide past the cock screw on each side. Then you will be able to push your flint all the way back until the backside of the flint touches the cock screw. Hope I've explained this clearly. It works fine. I notch all my flint leathers. Good luck.

 

[jimbo15563]

Sunday October 2 Results

Again, I was pressed for time and only got to shoot 11 shots. I wiped between shots with TC Bore Cleaner followed by a dry patch. I flipped each one making a total of 4 passes after each shot. I picked the touch hole each time and wiped the frizzen, flint, and pan with a q tip and lighter fluid about every third time.

The TC Agate as pictured above depressed the leather after the first shots and got me the few mm's of space I wanted between it and the frizzen. I am pretty satisfied with the two pieces of leather because it gave me the extra flint length I needed. The agate failed to spark on shot 10, so I reversed it. It appears that they will work OK for 10 shots per side and then you toss them and put in another. Lonewolf has suggested that the agates might work better bevel up. As I look at the picture above, this should make it hit higher on the frizzen - I'll try it next time if the Black English Flints that are on backorder don't arrive.

I had one flash missfire, but it was because I forgot to pick the touch hole. I had forgotten to get the improved touch hole liners, but will install one before I shoot again.

I'm comfortable that I've solved the reliability issues for now. I'll hunt with this setup for Early Muzzleloader season Oct 15-22 and then send the lock into TC for the improved hammer and frizzen. This will give me a month to get it back in time for regular gun season in late November.

My shooting was another story! I'm not a great shot, but I'm not terrible, either. I qualified expert with an M-16 30 some years ago. I can shoot 3 inch groups all day long with my 30-30 at 100 yards. These flintlocks are a whole new ballgame! 50% of my shots grouped well, but the other 50% were not consistent. Some of this may be attributed to lock time, which I can improve with new flints, parts, touch hole liners, etc. I'm taking my weedeater next time to trim a few errant weeds out of the shooting lane in case this is the problem. I need to work on the flinching a bit, especially off the bench. I've never noticed it when shooting at a deer, probably because of the adrenaline rush.

I increased the charge last Sunday from the 70 grains of 2F from the previous session. I shot 5 with 70 grains of 3F:

And then I shot 6 with 80 grains of 3F:

I would like to have shot more, but had some other things to take care of. I didn't see any noticeable group changes in the 3 loads ( 70 2F, 70 3F, 80 3F). The 80 grains of 3F did raise the elevation, which I will need for 100 yards. I don't think any more powder is needed, especially with the 1:48 twist. I'll also keep the ball/patch combination the same. I needed to rap the short starter with my hand and give the rod a healthy shove to seat the ball. The starter made a slight indentation on the ball. This leads me to believe that the combination is plenty tight. I might add a Wonder Wad just to see what happens.

I'll be shooting again next Sunday and would like to draw on the collective wisdon of this forum. Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Jimbo

 

[roundball]

I used wonderwads for any hunting load...with the improved sealing, you'll get an increase in velocity and your POI will probably change some...I wouldn't start using the wads without rechecking my zero;

Although it's probably not a significant issue, IMO, I don't like a short starter to make a mark on a ball...I always took that to mean the size of the flared end was not large enough to fit the size & curvature of the ball and I'd change up to a larger flared tip.

:m2c:

 

[jimbo15563]

RB,

I'd been wondering about the short starter. I will get another one. While we're on the subject of roundballs, the box I have is fairly old and has been stored in a variety of conditions over the years. They have a frosted, scaly appearance.

I assumed that this would have no bearing on how they shoot. Is this correct?

Thanks,
Jimbo

 

[Rebel]

It won't hurt a thing, but if it bothers you, just give them a spray with some WD-40, and they will be good as new.

 

[roundball]

Rebel's got it...shoot them like they are or clean them off, has never mattered to me just shooting at the range...I have poured a box out onto an old towel, hosed them down with WD40, rolled them around with the towel, looked lke new again.

 

[jimbo15563]

As I stated above, I want to get my Renegade to shoot dead-on at 100 yards. The rationale for this is explained in this article written by B.E. Spencer:

Practical Hunting Trajectories

In order to duplicate his results on the Gun-Controller ballistics chart it is necessary to achieve a muzzle velocity of 1800fps. Although I wouldn't shoot at a deer at this distance, it produces a maximum Point Blank Range of 115 yards. Everything up to this distance is point-and-shoot, eliminating any elevation guesswork on longer shots. In addition to giving good downrange energy for clean kills, it ought to be helpful for cutting through the brush.

Does anyone have any chrono data on what it would take to achieve 1800fps with a .490 roundball using Goex 3F? I'm thinking that my 80 grain load ought to be getting close.

 

[jimbo15563]

There have been a number of postings about the TC hammer upgrade. Although I haven't seen it mentioned recently, I thought I remembered that a harder frizzen was also part of the upgrade. Mine's pretty ugly:

I'm not sure whether I should get TC to take care of it or do it myself. Any ideas?

Jimbo

 

[Rebel]

I don't think it is going to matter what your velocity is, you aren't going to be "Cutting through Brush" with a round ball or any other projectile. If you hit a limb, you have no idea where that projectile is going to end up at. :m2c:

 

[jimbo15563]

Limb-No Leaf Maybe It sure can't hurt. . .

I know all about limbs. I shot at a nice buck last year standing behind a brushpile. I saw what I thought was an opening in front of his chest. Must've been something there because I never touched him and shouldn't have missed. Only buck I saw all season.

Jimbo

 

[jimbo15563]

I don't have access to a range, so today was the last sight-in opportunity before the opening day of PA early muzzleloader season. I fired 13 shots - 80 grains Goex 3F, .490 Hornady Roundball, .015 TC pre-lube patch. I only had one missfire - another dryball! The TC agate flint was new and sparked every time. The lock time was a tad slow.

The first 7 were at 40 paces off the bench (wobbly Coleman camp table, cheap plastic bench rest from Wallyworld).

The first shot hit the frame 1/2" above the target - not cool. The next 6 were a sort of 3" vertical string. I'm thinking this was me, not the rifle. Gotta work on the flinches. I've seen lots of advice on the forum, I just need to practice some of it. The first one really concerns me. The barrel appears to shoot 4-5" higher when clean than after it is fouled. The same thing happened the previous week. I really need more shooting time, to test this. Unfortunately, I don't have any. I haven't decided whether to wake up the neighbors with a fouling shot or just aim slightly low at Bambi.

The next 6 shots were the same load at 120 paces, somewhere around 100 yards. I should have brought along a different target, because I couldn't even see the diamond. I just aimed for the middle of the yellow.

I hit the target 5 out of the 6 shots. I don't know where the other one went. Four of these were inside a 3" circle about 4" low. I'm not totally satisfied and think I can improve this over time. However, I feel comfortable enough for opening day. I hunt the same spot evey year and most of the deer I've shot there have been at 50 yards or under.

I'd like to thank everybody for the good advice and wish them luck this season!

Jimbo

 

[roundball]

If it was me, I'd get that frizzen replaced ASAP...send the whole lock assembly to TC and they'll take care of it No Charge...that's the old style and the frizzen pivot screw usually has significant wear on it also, which they would replace at the same time.

Or, you can compress the frizzen spring with a tiny 1.5" C-clamp VERY GENTLY so you don't bend the tension out of it (or worse, crack it) then remove the frizzen pivot screw & frizzen yourself, send them to TC to get replacement parts, etc.

Safest thing is to send the lock to TC's Service Manager Tim Pancurak.

 

[jimbo15563]

RB,

Thanx for all the good advice. I need to hunt with it Oct 15 thru 22. I'm going to mail it per your instructions Monday the 24th so I can get it back and shoot it by late November for the regular rifle season.

Jimbo

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

You might get a better spark by getting rid of some of that leather around your flint. When you use a thick pad like that, it has a tendency to cushion the blow of the flint against the frizzen, resulting in a weak spark. I use a thin leather pad, and trim away everything that's not needed to hold the flint in the jaws. I have used a thin lead pad also, but hesitate to recommend it because I have heard it's hard on the cock. Anyway, by using thinner leather, you will find that your flint can be positioned farther back in the jaws, also.

Good shooting!

 

[jimbo15563]

I had an unsuccessful PA early muzzleloader season (see my post here):

PA Early Season Results

Now it's time to upgrade the Renegade. I mailed the lock to TC with a letter to Tim Pancurak yesterday. I now have a supply of Tom Fuller Black English Flints, a flint knapping tool, the improved TC vent liners, and some Wonderwads.

While hunting at dusk, I noticed that I could hardly see to aim the original Renegade post and notch sight during the last few minutes of legal hunting time. While this sight works fine off the bench, I'd have had to aim down the barrel at a deer in those light conditions. So I ordered a new set of sights.

New Sights

I'm hoping this will correct the situation,as well as improve the target groups. I also wanted to try out this sight for possible use in the underhammer I'm have built. See my posts here:

Jimbo's Underhammer

Now I'm waiting impatiently for my "stuff" to arrive and do some shooting! My plans are to continue using the Hornady .490 roundballs with the .015 TC Pre-Lubed patches. I think I'll bump up the charge slightly to 85 grains of Goex FFF with a Wonderwad over top of it.

I probably won't get it all ready until a week from Sunday and will post results of the new setup. Thanx to Roundball and everyone else for helping me put this all together!

Jimbo

 

[jimbo15563]

I got my brand new lock back from TC by following RB's instructions to mail the old-style one to the attention of Tim Pancuric.

I also got my new ghost ring sight (will post pix later), some Tom Fuller black english flints, a knapping tool, and the improved touch hole liners.

I wasn't able to shoot last Sunday because it stormed here, but hope to do so this Sunday.

I will need to zero all over again with this new sight. I saw roundball post his hunting load in another thread. :bow:

90grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke wonderwad
.018" TC prelubed pillow ticking
Hornady .490/180grn ball

Him being the TC Guru, I think I'll try it. I'll post the results.

Jimbo

 

[roundball]

It's been an equally great load for me in both 1:48" and 1:66" TC barrels...let us know how it does for you