Goofy Hunting reg.

[1sthound]

Purchased a pedersoli .45 kentucky to hunt with this season, practiced all summer with .440 balls. Was looking at regs a little more closely and it states the minimum legal caliber for deer is .45, Great says I then next sentence says minimum ball wt. 130grs. Uh oh the .440s are 128. Drats! so I ordered some .445s at 133gr. wondering if they will be too tight? Any thoughts? only about 4 wks till the season. Hoping I can get them to shoot without too many problems.

 

[swathdiver]

It is quite foolish for some wizard of smart to sit in his office building and dream up these dumb regulations.

Regardless, you are covered as your rifle is a .45 but would need to shoot the heavier ball and use a thinner patch to make it work. Unless of course, there is something written somewhere else that allows the use of any .45 round ball regardless of weight.

It's a shame they won't leave us alone.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I'll bet if you check your regulations a little closer you will find that "caliber" is defined by bore measurement....not projectile size.

The weight of the projectile is based on a .45 round ball of pure lead.....a statistical number.....It is most likely meant as a guideline....and not an exact scientific weight..

What state are you referring to?

 

[1sthound]

From the regs sitting in front of me. must be at least .40 caliber in size. If hunting pronghorn or deer, bullet must be 130 grs. or heavier. Sabots must be 170 gr. or heavier. Elk, Moose, Bison, Bighorn Sheep, or Mountain Goat.you must use a 210 grain or heavier bullet,or a sabot that's at least 240 gr.
No mention of bore size anywhere. These are the muzzleloader regs. not the center fire section. So according to the regs I wont be legal unless I can get the .445s to work. If not I have a .50 ready to go. Just had my heart set on that nice to carry .45 as opposed to the heavy lyman GPR.

 

[1sthound]

Missed that its Utah

 

[nhmoose]

I would not worry about it. Here in NH there are a few Lawyers who will gratis fight stupid regs like that.

First would be whose scales when last certified etc.

Why are we so afraid of . GOV who had no clue when the reg was made?

2 grains most have know idea of what a grain is let alone that an alloy will readily change it.

 

[BrownBear]

I sincerely doubt any LEO is going to pull and weigh your bullet. He'll read the 45 cal on the barrel and wish you a nice day.

Keep a few loose .445's handy for weighing if it worries you too much. If they had a scale they'd surely weigh those rather than pulling the bullet.... Especially if you "forgot" to bring your own bullet puller. :grin:

 

[coloradoclyde]

The guidebook is a summary of the laws....not a complete list. I recommend contacting the Utah fish and game dept. for a clarification.

Also, the weight of an object decreases with altitude....So I wouldn't worry about a couple grains.....and I never saw a Warden carry a micrometer and scale... :wink:

 

[mooman76]

Will some Lee REALs work. They are 200gr. Also do you cast your own RBs? You could do what some call beagle the mould. That's putting a piece of aluminum tape between the mould halves to increase the size a few thousandth. Certainly it would get you your 130gr.

 

[hanshi]

We have virtually the same regs in my native Ga and here in Va. Don't concern yourself with it. I've hunted mostly with a .45 and .440" ball. I've also used .445" ball interchangeably with the .440". They both loaded the same, shot to the same poi and had the same velocity. Using either in your rifle would be fine.

 

[Danny Ross]

If you have a grain scale weigh your balls. I have weighed and found some balls heavier and lighter than what is "standard weight" for a ball size in a given box of balls. You may find you might have some 139-140gr balls in the box. As mentioned no game warden I have seen carries a grain scale. If they did, technically they would have to calibrate it daily or just before they weigh you balls, because riding around in the vehicle it could get knocked off zero. I doubt they would argue about 1-2 grains in weight, 5 or more you would have a problem. DANNY

 

[nwtradegun]

ga. only states 44 caliber. no mention of diameter or weight. got regs in front of me.

 

[Zonie]

Near as I can find, a housefly weighs about .035 ounces. If this is true, it weighs about 15.3 grains.

I really doubt that the missing 2 grains of weight the .440 diameter roundball has would be noticed by any game and fish officer but as others have suggested, just carry a couple of .445 diameter balls with you so the officer can measure their weight.

 

[1sthound]

Thanks for all the help guys! I really appreciate your time.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have only been checked by wardens twice with my flintlock, they were so surprised by my choice of weapon they spent a lot of time checking out
my craftsmanship and never asked what caliber it was.

 

[54ball]

Eric,
Have you noticed how the state has got lazy with their Hunting annual...
Used too muzzleloaders were described in legal arms and ammunition for the general season.... You and I both know they are legal but if you read the recent annuals they are defined in legal arms and ammunition with this phrase at the end...

During the Special Muzzleloader Season...

It can be interpreted that muzzleloaders are only legal during that week in November....
Ever notice this?

 

[hanshi]

I stand corrected, .44. As I was born in and lived in Ga for 62 years, I seldom paid much attention to the "gun regs". For a long time I hunted with an H&A underhammer that was, indeed, a .44. The recommended ball was, IIRC, .435". I fired .440" ball. So I guess I was legal from day one. :thumbsup:

 

[coloradoclyde]

It can be interpreted that muzzleloaders are only legal during that week in November....
Ever notice this?

Doubtful...

A summary of the laws is not the same as an actual statute....There are legal standards for defining and interpreting statutes...

 

[Eric Krewson]

54, if you did a little deeper in the reg book they give a better definition of what is M/L legal to hunt deer.

Rifles using centerfire, mushrooming ammunition.
ï‚· Shotguns, 10 gauge or smaller using buckshot, slugs, or single
round ball.
ï‚· Air powered guns, .30 caliber or larger.
ï‚· Muzzle-loaders and Black Powder Handguns--.40 caliber or larger.
ï‚· Long bows, compound bows, or crossbows in conformance with
220-2-.03.
ï‚· Handguns or pistols using centerfire, mushrooming ammunition.
ï‚· Hand thrown spear with sharpened blade in conformance with the
standards for broadheads in paragraph 2(b) of 220-2-.03.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I really doubt that the missing 2 grains of weight the .440 diameter roundball has would be noticed by any game and fish officer but as others have suggested, just carry a couple of .445 diameter balls with you so the officer can measure their weight

Actually it would be even simpler, if you carried a small, plain, cardboard box with a (home computer) adhesive, printed label ".445, 130 grain lead round ball". Put a few of your .440's into this, and put this in your rifle bag that you use when hunting, or into your pocket if you don't use a bag.

I really doubt any officer will carry a scale, but if one that meets you does, the officer will have to prove that you intentionally knew the round ball in the box with the label saying they are .445's and 130 grains was false. (You don't have to admit to anything.) I'll bet that when they see the label that will be satisfactory, and you'll spend most of the time discussing the rifle and its accuracy and stuff.

LD