GPR to a trekking rifle

[ncmtmike]

Is there a gunsmith out there that would be willing to take this Great Plains(Lyman).50 33" barrel and cut the barrel down to 22"- 24" and install swivels for a sling? I am wanting to carry this on my long woods stays. I would also like the nipple replaced while you have it there(old one seems froze) If you would take this project on,, PM or e-mail me ,Thanks,Mike

 

[Black Hand]

Is there a gunsmith out there that would be willing to take this Great Plains(Lyman).50 33" barrel and cut the barrel down to 22"- 24" and install swivels for a sling? I am wanting to carry this on my long woods stays. I would also like the nipple replaced while you have it there(old one seems froze) If you would take this project on,, PM or e-mail me ,Thanks,Mike

Why would you want to shorten it?
It is quite short as it is and accuracy may suffer due to the reduced sight-plane...

If it is a weight issue, I might suggest a smoothbore.

 

[matt denison]

Is there a gunsmith out there that would be willing to take this Great Plains(Lyman).50 33" barrel and cut the barrel down to 22"- 24" and install swivels for a sling? I am wanting to carry this on my long woods stays. I would also like the nipple replaced while you have it there(old one seems froze) If you would take this project on,, PM or e-mail me ,Thanks,Mike

Why would you want to shorten it?
It is quite short as it is and accuracy may suffer due to the reduced sight-plane...

If it is a weight issue, I might suggest a smoothbore.

Seen that comin' a mile away.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Just a word-to-the-wise...

The Lyman is a 1:60 twist rate with a 32" barrel, so you are getting 1/2 turn of the ball by the time it reaches the muzzle. This is pretty standard for the accurate muzzleloading rifle barrels on the market today, which normally give you at least a 1/2 turn if not a bit more. For example my .40 is a 1:48 with a 42" barrel so it gets a 3/4 turn by the time it reaches the muzzle, and my .54 gives the ball 2/3 of a twist. Cutting that Lyman barrel down to less than 1/2 turn might give you problems. It might not, but that could be an expensive experiment if unsuccessful...

LD

 

[galamb]

Just about ANY gunsmith would/could cut down the barrel for you - so that should answer that part for you. YES, it can be done.

Prices will vary - I have had barrels cut and recrowned for 20-30 bucks (I build but don't feel confident with some aspects of the metal work and recrowning is important so for a few bucks I let a pro do it).

Should you do it? that's open to opinion/discussion..

Will it change how your rifle shoots - absolutely.

All else being equal you will lose OR gain velocity with the shorter barrel compared to what you getting now (that is dependent on many factors). That will affect your aim point, how well the rifle groups etc. You cold increase/decrease the powder charge but that will throw something else off.

So after the barrel was cut down you would basically have to start from scratch again to figure out the combination you need for it to be accurate.

Plus, with less barrel you would have to remount the front site (25/35 bucks to have a dovetail cut) which would mean your sighting would become much more twitchy - sights are closer so a tiny twitch can throw the point of impact way off (think of shooting a pistol).

I believe that a 22-24" barrel in itself would NOT cause an issue with a 1:60 twist.

Lymans 50 cal pistol has an 8" barrel with a 1:30 twist, so the ball gets less than 1/3 of a rotation before it leaves the barrel "stabilized".

A 24" 1:60 would be close to half a twist before it exits the bore (a smooth bore gets none and they are accurate out to 100'ish yards with practice)..

 

[tenngun]

I have read that 9 inchs will give you all the accuracy a rife has. I don't know if that's true. I do know your siting radias will make it harder to sight. Howsomever I think it was navy arms that used to make a sawed off zoave with a 22 inch barrel that they called a buffalo hunter. (I wouldn't try it on a buff myself)

 

[don hepler]

I'd sell it and find a White Mt. carbine, or New Englander.

 

[BrownBear]

Got a Deerstalker 54, a New Englander 54, a Pedersoli Frontier Carbine 50, and a custom 58- all with shorter barrels. Proven performers all.

Anyone can spout theory if they're not the ones packing.

Only thing different I see about yours is the added sling swivels, borrowing from the long tradition of shortish Jaegers.

Carry on and do what you want. You'll be happy and the complainers will keep on doing what they do best. You'll be shooting, and they'll be typing. How can you beat that? :rotf:

 

[Black Hand]

Only thing different I see about yours is the added sling swivels, borrowing from the long tradition of shortish Jaegers.

And 10 inches cut from the barrel...

 

[1950DAVE]

Got a Deerstalker 54, a New Englander 54, a Pedersoli Frontier Carbine 50, and a custom 58- all with shorter barrels. Proven performers all.

Anyone can spout theory if they're not the ones packing.

Only thing different I see about yours is the added sling swivels, borrowing from the long tradition of shortish Jaegers.

Carry on and do what you want. You'll be happy and the complainers will keep on doing what they do best. You'll be shooting, and they'll be typing. How can you beat that? :rotf:

We'll said!!!

 

[M. De Land]

I had a buffalo hunter some years back and I believe it was a 26 inch barrel if memory serves me correctly. Mike D.

 

[M. De Land]

I would suggest not going shorter than 26 inches to maintain some decent velocity. Rate of ball rotation is effected by velocity as the faster the ball goes the more RPMs generated.
I have made several pistols with 9-10inch rifle barrels with slow twist, 1-60 and the ball is perfectly stable to at least 50 yards that I have tested them to. A ball does not need much rotation to stabilize.
Cutting it back to 26 inches will seem incredibly short after having one 33 inches long. Mike D.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well gee folks if all we're trying to do is to shoot to 50 yards, they why not lighten the barrel further by having it reamed out to smooth bore, and make it a smooth rifle?

If it doesn't matter about the twist rate, then why don't they make all rifle and pistol barrels in the 1:60 or 1:66 twist rate? I'm confused. I know the British found by 1804 that a .600 ball with a 1/4 turn was sufficiently stabilized (note not "perfectly" stabilized) to hit a standing man sized target, but that was to them an area of 2' x 6'. Not quite the idea one wants when hunting I'd say. Forsyth in 1867 liked about 1/3 turn with a huge round ball, and I think in his case the mass of the ball was playing a bigger part than with what we are normally discussing. He was shooting to 100 yards, and didn't want to have to adjust his sight picture, even if he went farther, so had huge powder loads too...

LD

 

[matt denison]

"Anyone can spout theory if they're not the ones packing."

This forum is notorious (sp) for the short barrel haters. This fellow is calling his gun a trekking rifle. Heaven forbid that he would call it a canoe gun. Then we could have a real field day telling him what he can't and shouldn't do.

 

[rich pierce]

Generally with a shorter barrel you want a faster twist because the ball will exit with lower velocity. That's why pistols have faster twist. I believe what is wanted is a certain number of RPMs. Think about it, a ball going slower won't travel the same distance, so won't spin as fast. That makes it less stable. To overcome this, they make faster twists for shorter barrels. That is why they often made the twist one turn in the length of the barrel. So reasonable powder charges with decent velocity had a stable spin at that velocity.


This is just info. If the guy wants a carbine, he can get it done and it will involve cutting and crowning the barrel, moving the front sight, playing with ramrod pipes, and shortening the ramrod. The rifle should be fine to 75 yards for deer.

 

[ncmtmike]

The majority of the time(95%) I am in THICK laurel groundblinds,while I do indeed own an kill with a smoothbore,I have NEVER had to shoot @ over 15-20 yds.The discussion you gents have on rate of twist vs accuracy has very little application in my hunting areas,If I hunted from tree stands or in towers like some folk do then maybe I need to be spot on at 100 yds,but as it stands now, it is very difficult to get into laurel thickets with a 52" smoothbore,not to mention,messing up a beautiful Maple stock. Taking this GPR and shortening the barrel is much cheaper&smarter than #*&%# up my Early English 62/20

 

[BrownBear]

...it is very difficult to get into laurel thickets with a 52" smoothbore....

The theorists and typists will continue to tell you the long barrel isn't a problem in the thick stuff. Tells you all you need to know about their level of experience in tangles.

We're fighting thick stuff too, so you'd feel right at home here. The 24" barrel on the Deerstalker is none too short, and sometimes even too long. Go with your project and I bet you'll be happy as a clam at high tide.

As for the sling, I dinked around quite a bit. I don't use the sling while hunting, but it's dandy when moving through the thick stuff to/from the hunting grounds. Delightful once you have a deer down and need two hands (and often times four hands!) to drag them back out through the same tangles. I've tried lots of arrangements from sling swivels to invention, finally this one as the best of all worlds for brush hunting. Just slip it off and roll it into a pocket while hunting, then slip it on any time you need two hands for navigating.

BTW- Another advantage of that short barrel. When you sling a long barrel, it's sticking way up over your shoulder to become the perfect brush snag. The short barrel rides below your shoulder a little, and you can practically glide through the brush without tangles.

 

[ncmtmike]

Finally :grin: Got someone who's been there! Thanks Bear! Nice sling as well :blah:

 

[gunmaker43]

Well been there--done that. I lived 35 yr. in western Washington state & the Oregon coast range. The underbrush has to be seen to be believed. I carried a rifle with a 26" bbl. AND a sling. Very handy when dragging deer or elk quarters up hill 500 yd. Another thought, you could pick up a drop in bbl. for the GPR & have it cut or made to your specs...Just some random thoughts from an old brush buster....Tom

 

[bpd303]

"Anyone can spout theory if they're not the ones packing."

This forum is notorious (sp) for the short barrel haters. This fellow is calling his gun a trekking rifle. Heaven forbid that he would call it a canoe gun. Then we could have a real field day telling him what he can't and shouldn't do.

Yep I have one of them thar canoe/buggy rifles in .40 caliber. It shoots just fine with it's 16 in barrel and is more accurate than I am. Carries very well in thick brush light as a feather too. Oh and it's got sling swivels too.