gransfors hatchet

[horsetrader]

Would a small gransfors hatchet work for late a 1700 outfit? Everyone talks about hawks but I like hatchets.....

 

[paulvallandigham]

Not if you are trying to be Period Correct.

 

[dyemaker]

A German hunting sword might work in it's place. Immigrants preferred them and carried them instead of hand axes.

 

[horsetrader]

any hatches out there which would work ( high quality)....

 

[ameling]

As with so many things, the ... devil is in the details.

There are ... problems ... with the shape/style of the GB hatchets that do not fit in with any 1700's originals - in both the hatchet head itself, but also with the handle shape. They are just a much much more modern style/shape. Their "tomahawk" is closer, but only some.

GB makes some very good hatchets, axes, and hawks. But if you are concerned about the historical accuracy of them to fit into the 1700's, then look elsewhere.

Just my humble thoughts to share, and best used in conjunction with your own research.

Mikey

 

[dyemaker]

Here is one to debate over. I thought that most hand axes were more for utilitarian use. I admit I don't know much about it. here

 

[Bryanbrown]

Well it would depend on a) which hatchet b) handle shape c) whom, where and what you are portraying

Eared axes and hand axes are not unheard of in the American colonies but are largely limited to persons of Scandinavian heritage or Northern Germans/ Slavs. That tends to limit you to parts of Southern New England. South Eastern PA around Philadelphia down into Delaware was at one point in the 1600 and very early 1700s as New Sweden. Yes that is the southern end of New England historically.

However this tool choice would be frontier settlements or farms at most, and would largely be limited to towns and craftsmen of the period versus traveling "long hunter" who tend to tomahawk or trade axes. Tomahawks and trade axes have one thing in common they are VERY light. To light to do serious construction or trades work with but handy for a man on foot for general utility work.

Does that distinction make sense ? Is it the least bit helpful to your question?

Bryan K Brown www.gunsmithy.com

 

[Bryanbrown]

http://www.boundarywaterscatalog.com/browse.cfm/4,753.html could be appropriate to the period. But may not be appropriate to the portrayal of person or region.

As would http://www.boundarywaterscatalog.com/browse.cfm/4,750.html or http://www.boundarywaterscatalog.com/browse.cfm/4,749.html IF you replaced the handle with a straight one

You may find this book useful http://www.amazon.com/American-Axes-Survey-Development-Makers/dp/1883294126

18th century ax and hatchet handles tend to be straight across most cultures, without the deers foot handle you see on modern axes and hatchets ending in more of a knob or flat. Ears on axes tend to indicate heavy use splitting or trades use. Felling axes tend to have thinner heavier heads with a poll or hammer back for cutting deep and driving gluts (wooden wedges) for splitting. Some with ears some without. But these tools are seen in barns or trades versus a long hunter in the woods. What are you portraying? Where when? A French Hugenot would have different tools and regions then a Catholic Habitant, who would have different tools then an Irish indentured servant or a Scots pressman of the mid 1700s (a type of indentured servant sold for taxes or other debts). These types of tools would be appropriate to some wood based trades, gunsmith or barn framer, treenworker or bodger but to not a ratman (rat catcher) or joiner, cabinet maker, or framer (fine wood workers)

So as you can see the who is as important as the when.

Where is a factor as well, you might find them in the Moravian settlements in the central Carolinas and Virginia, or Delaware into South Eastern PA, but not Georgia or Charleston SC. Parts of New York and Connecticut, but not Maine.

Does this help you focus your thoughts or questions at all?

Bryan K Brown www.gunsmithy.com

 

[Bryanbrown]

A hunting sword is not tool well suited to wood. At least not by the 18th century, the more machete like falchion style has fallen out of fashion in favor of straighter thrusting blades. The still exist but are much less common. The WW2 Luftwaffe Aircrew "machete" of the eastern front is a copy of a mid 1600s hunting sword in the falchion style. http://www.atlantacutlery.com/p-1091-wwii-german-luftwaffe-survival-machete.aspx the metal scabbard is utterly wrong for us though. You can find the 1600s master for it in SchossBerg in Stuttgart. Blackwells Hunting Weapons is a good source for this sort of discussion. http://www.amazon.com/Hunting-Weap...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246471407&sr=1-1

Even the trousse of the the Germanic hunter is less common by the 18th century with its small hatchets and cleaver like butchering blade.

Bryan K Brown www.jaegerkorps.org

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I have a small belt axe that was forged by Jack Vargo of Beaver River Trading Company in Croghan, N.Y. It's big enough to be useful and small enough to carry nicely. He makes a variety of 'hawks and axes from bag/belt size to camp size. Type the company name into your browser window and you should get there.

 

[tg]

Here is a link to a long list of vendors some have pretty nice hatchets/small axes forged or cast lots of options http://www.1stroyals.org/links.html

 

[dyemaker]

Nice list Tg. I had this link saved too. Most are not suitable because they are Scandinavian but there was a British belt ax and a few others that might fly for reenacting in whatever era it is you want to reenact. More options anyway. I don't have much knowledge in this so I'm of no help in choosing the right ax for the job.
http://www.ragweedforge.com/ThrowingCatalog.html

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you go to the Gransfors Bruk website,
http://www.gransfors.com/htm_eng/index.html,

it indicates the company has been in business since 1902. It is making French and British Trade axes, which resemble the lighter tomahawks use in N. America, but if you look at their Axe section, and then at the section on building axes( broad axe, etc.) you can see the difference in the shapes of the handles, and the axeheads themselves, which are not correct for the period. I see one broad axe advertised that is circa 1700, and another circa 1800. I would not want to carry either of them on a belt! I doubt that any one back in the day carried them on a belt, either! :shocked2: :hmm: :surrender: :thumbsup:

OH, if I were wanting to buy a good axe to use today, I certainly would be looking at this line of products.

 

[tg]

There are quite a few which are similar to existing survivours shown in Neumanns book on the Rev War, the British axe is a good one and there are several other pole hatchets on the various forge sites that would be doable.THis site has a nice one http://pioneerarms.com/bag_axe.html

 

[dyemaker]

I wasn't sure what a Gransfor hatchet even was. So they are Swedish made. Nice link. Don't know much about the historic part but they look like nicely made tools. The Gransfor hand hatchet obviously has the wrong handle but the head looks pretty similar to the pioneerarms bag ax. Maybe slightly different. The photo of the Gansfor hatchet was too small to see in detail though.
http://www.gransfors.com/

 

[dyemaker]

I sometimes search through google images when I'm curious about things like this. I found this link that was somewhat useful. There is a Germanic hewing ax like Bryant Brown had made mention of here too. I am just someone who does not know much and wants to learn more.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/fspubs/99232823/page03.htm

:bow:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Remember that the early colonists were the working POOR, and they could not afford to spend money on hand weapons. They bought Tools, they could use to build homes, corrals, pens, barns, sheds, etc. out of a wilderness. If an axe ever was used as a weapon, it was in a life or death struggle and only if he could not reach his gun, or it had already been emptied, and he didn't have time to reload it.

The American Indian's use of the hawk was based on a different approach to warfare, and spiritual concerns with taking the spirit, or soul of the enemy you attacked. It was better understood in the Western Plaines, when White trappers and explorers discovered that killing an enemy for some tribes was not as important as touching an enemy with a " coup " stick. The long handled, small edged tomahawks, shown in "The Last of the Mohigans" movie, were used by the Eastern Tribe. But, they were also highly decorated with paint to represent the spirit of the warrior, and his clan, and warfare was a religious event, much more so than it was for Europeans. Indians armed with war clubs- like the Ball-end clubs in fashion these days-- were considered equally well armed as another Indian with a Tomahawk.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Would a small gransfors hatchet work for late a 1700 outfit? Everyone talks about hawks but I like hatchets.....

Gransfors axes are the best made hand forged axes I know of.
I own three and my hunting ax has butchered many,many moose, deer, elk,goat,sheep etc.. wile guiding and hunting the last twenty years.
As for Period correct, the small belt ax looks just like any pole ax from the 18 century. I would be suprised if even the most anal thred counter :barf: would know the difference if you sanded the handle and put it in a proper period sheath.
Why carry crap when you can carry the best.
Gransfors Brunk axes from Sweden!!
:hatsoff:
I have never owned a ax that can cleave a moose leg bone like a Gransfors

 

[paulvallandigham]

Sorry, the wings on the bottom of the hole for the handle give it away as a modern design. :shocked2:

While you can find a little bit of everything having been made long before the late 1700s, it take a lot of extra work to form those wings on the sides of the axe head, to support the handle where it enters the hole.

I agree that the rest of the shape is similar to any pole axe used in the day. There are several different pole axe styles, however, and that handle needs to be straight, not curved to give more leverage. I am not being " anal". I do think that historical truth needs to be factored into any gear and clothing you choose if you are wanting to portray someone from a particular era.

If you are just having a GOOD TIME, or wanting something practical to carry into the field with you when hunting with your MLer, than this is a fine tool for the job. Its always your choice. I am not in love with the idea of always using tools that are out date, or have been replaced with similar, but better designed tools. But, I leave those " New tools" at home when I go to rendezvous.

 

[Turkey1760]

If the wing or ears as some are calling them is all that concerns you ,You need to look at original examples again.It seems to me I've seen several examples with wings and or ears.www.Beaverbills.com is a real good site. He has many styles and types for sale at QUITE RESONABLE PRICES.