grizz back-up gun

[cptleo1]

dad and i are planning a elk hunt in sw alberta with a high population of grizzlies.i shoot a .54 renegade and would like to use that instead of my 30/06 that i used to use.the problem is is that i don't know how comfortable i feel with one shot.in alberta you can't use a handgun for anything but targets so thats out for back-up.do i go back to the odd 6 or put a conical in and hope for the best.dad uses a 300 win providing we are together.any ideas

Sure - - Stick CLOSE to Dad = Father knows best

 

[Mr Hawken]

i thank you for all your input. i think for protection back-up i will go with pepper spray.to hike with another gun over the shoulder would be a nuisance and the only way for any handgun would be illegal.remember this is only back-up and not actually hunting grizzly.

 

[BrownBear]

Good move. Common sense mix and match of all the factors.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Greenmtnboy, did you hit the four year old with the 44 mag or the 45/70? Also was that a 375win or h&h? :hatsoff:

I shot the bear at 10 yrds with my 44, I had to get super close because my boss was in and out of line of fire, Diden't think about what would happen to me if it turned I just walked up and put one in the boiler room.
My boss's behind the door gun is a cut down 375 H&H with peep sites. :shocked2: :bow:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

any critter with teeth bigger than mine and eats meat should be approached with caution IMO. :hmm:

My lab dog has got Big teeth. :wink:
Her Bark is worse than her bite though.....For real.....I got a pretty goods set of Chicklets on me too.....My Middle name on my birth certificate is "Beaver".I get pretty hungry at times too so I guess that puts me somewheres in the top 1 or 2 in NS. :hmm:
I suppose I should get around to answering the original question.For my back up in Hostile Bear country I probably take along some sort of pump 12 with and extended tube loaded with Both slug and 00Buck.Chances are I'll never hunt where there's anything more dangerous than a guys by the names of Junior SweetPea or Jack Bennie. :wink:

I'm a little stumped here, why would you depend on buck shot to defend against bear :youcrazy:
The last year I guided in AK they had to put down a large hostle bore. They found 9mm slugs in it's skull, from sombody who was horribly under powered trying to defend themselves.
Until you see a thousand pound bear sprint at you at speeds excess of 40 mph up hill you really can't fathom the raw unstopable power of this creature that hasen't needed to evolve for thousands of years.
As for me I live, breath, eat,work and play in the back country and nether my wife or I step off the pourch with out a side arm.
wether it's pine barren feral dogs trying to eat your ass or in Brownbears case the most ausom of hippy eaters in the heart of AK, defending your self is a right I take very seriously.
:thumbsup:

 

[Halftail]

any critter with teeth bigger than mine and eats meat should be approached with caution IMO. :hmm:

My lab dog has got Big teeth. :wink:
Her Bark is worse than her bite though.....For real.....I got a pretty goods set of Chicklets on me too.....My Middle name on my birth certificate is "Beaver".I get pretty hungry at times too so I guess that puts me somewheres in the top 1 or 2 in NS. :hmm:
I suppose I should get around to answering the original question.For my back up in Hostile Bear country I probably take along some sort of pump 12 with and extended tube loaded with Both slug and 00Buck.Chances are I'll never hunt where there's anything more dangerous than a guys by the names of Junior SweetPea or Jack Bennie. :wink:

I'm a little stumped here, why would you depend on buck shot to defend against bear :youcrazy:
The last year I guided in AK they had to put down a large hostle bore. They found 9mm slugs in it's skull, from sombody who was horribly under powered trying to defend themselves.
Until you see a thousand pound bear sprint at you at speeds excess of 40 mph up hill you really can't fathom the raw unstopable power of this creature that hasen't needed to evolve for thousands of years.
As for me I live, breath, eat,work and play in the back country and nether my wife or I step off the pourch with out a side arm.
wether it's pine barren feral dogs trying to eat your ass or in Brownbears case the most ausom of hippy eaters in the heart of AK, defending your self is a right I take very seriously.
:thumbsup:

I dunno Greenmtn,
I guess I aint going to need to know either since where I live there aint no Dangerous game,Pine Dogs Or hippy eaters either for thet matter.Might Have a run in with a Hippy during growing season but they aint thet hard to fool. :v

 

[Stumpkiller]

From a few feet buckshot vs. slug vs. birdshot are all just a big one ounce glob of lead. The slug is going to hold it's mass and penetrate farthest, but buckshot is going to gouge out a big hole.

Shot a 180 lb animal from three feet with a .20 ga & #6 once from a rear-quartering angle. Seived the heart and left a hole in the lungs/chest I could reach into. Granted, though not grizzly size, birdshot is awsome stuff at three feet. Buckshot should be more so (one of those things, like a boat fire extinguisher, you hope to never have to test out in an emergency).

 

[rbfree]

I carry a .44 mag SBH corbons loaded hot.

the top one is my hunting back up the other is a grouse getter single six
44 mags will kill them big ones!!
This guy belwo was quartering his moose with his buddy when big ugly came a calling. his .44mag SBH put it down in one shot!!

 

[Greenmtnboy]

From a few feet buckshot vs. slug vs. birdshot are all just a big one ounce glob of lead. The slug is going to hold it's mass and penetrate farthest, but buckshot is going to gouge out a big hole.

Shot a 180 lb animal from three feet with a .20 ga & #6 once from a rear-quartering angle. Seived the heart and left a hole in the lungs/chest I could reach into. Granted, though not grizzly size, birdshot is awsome stuff at three feet. Buckshot should be more so (one of those things, like a boat fire extinguisher, you hope to never have to test out in an emergency).

I guess so, but I don't want to have to waite until the bear is close enough to make buck shot effective.
Not to mention brownbears have thick hair, hide, and skull to penitrate.
But buck is better than nothing.
And it's what I keep behing my door in a 20 double.
:thumbsup:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Ya gotta love those single sixes, I own two old models and my truck/sm game gun is a new model stainless I got in Salmon ID for 150.00 two years ago.

 

[whitetrash078]

Maybe this is a bit late but Dixie slugs are bad mojo for anything that moves short of elephants. It was designed to act as the old 12 bore paradox load. That being a 730 gr hard cast slug a 1200 fps, they also make one that goes 1400 fps. At the Linebaugh seminars they powdered green cow bone and kept on going. In wet newspaper it traveled 26" with a 4" diameter wound channel. They only shoot well out of a rifled barrel though.

If you have no rifled barrel then Brenneke Black Magic slugs are called for.

 

[vikingsword]

I'd like to throw in my two cent's worth if I may? don't know if it will help, but here goes. I've been "hunting", dangerous things, let's say, for more than half my life, and there are a few things that stand above the rest that have saved my life more than a few times in a dangerous situation. Being prepared to the best of your ability, is always good, even if it's nothing more than up in your head (which most times, is the most important thing), it helps keep you calmer,you think faster and straighter,you are more confident, and,all these things will help you enjoy your hunt much more. You must always be prepared, and always alert(but not paranoid)... In your favor, I would do these things, at the very least. I would make sure your ML is a good strong weapon, My practice has always been, to immediatly reload after firing a shot, don't even take another step until you have. If I make a killing shot,and I'm sure I won't need another for my intended game, I will up my powder charge to the high range of it's capabilities, and load two balls down the barrel( I live on Kodiak Island, so I know there's bears around, always). With this load I know I have a better chance of stopping him if I need too.I've tried and tested this load many times just to see how it works, and feel better knowing I have a powerful defense. Pay attention to your surroundings, notice any and all tracks and age them best you can. Pay attention to the wind direction as most predators will hear the shot, and circle around and aproach from the down wind side. Watch some of the video's out on how to conduct yourself in bear country, and last but not least, I would personaly make a visit to a local taxidermist in the area who could show you some mounts, for size reference. They can also help you with the anatomy of a bear as most people don't actually realize how far into the back of a bear that the spine is, and would really be surprise at the true location of the brain cavity and just how much bone material is in front of it. I know this seems somewhat extreme, but knowledge is power and confidence. It will help you and hopefully allow you to enjoy you time in bear country. VS

 

[shmrck1]

BMM,
I have to say this up front,I have never
hunted bear. But from all I know hunting
black bear is like comparing hunting rabbits to
deer,compared to hunting black to brown bear(Griz
and or Kodiac)I know they are the same.
A black bear will run from a hunter most likely
95% of the time.A brown bear the number might be
50/50 :hmm: Sit in a tree over bait to maybe
harvest a black bear. Or,hunt a brown bear and
be the bait on the ground.
The best piece of advice I ever heard about
hunting brown bear was: "Skin that one,pilgram,
and I'll bring you another".In other words outrun
who you are with:rotf:
snake-eyes:surrender:

 

[BrownBear]

Can you guess that Vikingsword and I have walked brown bear country together? I agree that it's all about common sense and sensible precautions. There's not a brown bear behind every bush, and that's part of the problem. Charges come unexpectedly and very, very fast.

On the one hand, I felt decidedly undergunned when I was charged last year while carrying a muzzleloader. But on the other hand, experience and the situation unfolding before my eyes told me the "little" sow wasn't going to finish the charge.

And speaking of "little", we're talking a whole different beast when you say "grizzly" as opposed to coastal brown bear. Grizzlies are to coastal brown bears as shetland ponies are to clydesdales. Grizzlies are a whole lot smaller, but that doesn't mean they have any less heart or willingness to raise hell if you let yourself get into a bad situation. Been charged twice by them too, and the threat didn't feel one speck smaller in spite of the 500-1000 pound size difference.

I've also felt undergunned on other occasions when charged while carrying my trusty 375 H&H or 450 Alaskan. A big part of that was surprise, and another big part was the sincere hope that I didn't have to shoot. Turns out I was right each of those times. But that has no bearing on the next charge, which might be finished.

I'll say one thing about charges though. Multi-shot backup is a pretty good theory. But that's all it is. In an eat-your-lunch charge odds are you won't have time for two aimed shots, even if you're carrying a semi-auto. Just aint going to happen.

You got one shot when the charge starts, so make it a good one. Second shots will be found waiting in line between Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

You got one shot when the charge starts, so make it a good one. Second shots will be found waiting in line between Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

:bow: :bow:
no doubt!!

 

[varsity07840]

Indeed. If the back up is a 12 ga, I'd want a full bore heavy slug,rather than a sub caliber hollow point sabot made for killing whitetails. I don't think I'd want that bear close enough to me to make 00 the winner.

Duane

 

[Hamourkiller]

You could always get you a .72 cal double rifle from Pedersoli. Shoot him with Wheel Weight or Linotype roundballs on top of some serious black powder charges. Or go with an 8 bore smoothie.

If you use the shotgun for back up, you might want to look at the triball buckshot loads from Dixieslugs. 3 20 ga hardened roundballs per shot. They also make some serious solid slugs for the 12ga also.

Personally I would get one of the remakes of the old elephant smooth-rifles in the 12 to 8 bore and shoot him with a hardened roundball. Sweet talk Dad to back you up with a centerfire rifle.

Have fun and be safe.

 

[KSC]

You wanna be authentic, get yourself a militia rifle with a bayonet... An 18 inch tricorn can stop a cavalry charge, lets try it on a griz charge!!!

 

[sharps54]

Well Lewis and Clark did take spontoons (think boar spear) with them, at least that way you could "brace" it for a charge! :grin:
I think staying with Dad and spray make the most sense in this situation. A close alternative is a short barrel shotgun (I believe you can have shotguns with barrels under 18" legally in Canada) with slugs.

 

[Ron LaClair]

Some years back myself and a partner went on a float hunt in Alaska for moose. Our weapons were longbows. The trip consisted of floating 100 miles down a wilderness river. At the suggestion of our outfitter, the other weapons that we took besides our longbows were 44 magnum hand guns and a shotgun. He said the 44's were handy for signaling when we got separated in the bush and needed help, and the shotgun was a grizzle deterrent. My handgun was a 5" Ruger Black Hawk. My partner loaded some special hot hardball ammo for our 44's. The 12ga double was kept loaded with a slug in one barrel and 00 Buck in the other.

That old double is still doing service as an over the door gun out of reach of the grandkids. It';s kept loaded with 00...just in case some nut :youcrazy: decides to call. If he does, he'd better be carrying a white flag. :surrender:

note the front sight and peep with the insert out on the cut down double.