Grouping with a new Pistol

[gshepard]

I just took out my new 1858 .44 Army Case Harden Pistol from Cabela's . I shot 36 rounds at about 20 yards. The shots seem to be all over . I'm using .451 round ball with 27 grains of Pyrodex P. I'm not using wads but I am using home made bore butter over the balls.As this is my first black powder pistol, I'm not sure of what to expect. Does the barrel need to be broke in? Is there anything I can do to tighten up the grouping?

 

[Nightwind]

If you want, e-mail me direct. Several things to condider. [email protected]

 

[amccall]

I am not sure what nightwind might suggest but going to a 0.454 ball might help. Also using a wad or filler (corn meal) will also tighten your groups. There are other things that you can do but try these first and see if it helps. :v

 

[gshepard]

Thanks NightWind and He-Bear for the help. I went out yesterday and tried the corn meal. It help some. I can't put 3 shots on a 3x5 card and after 36 shots my group is about 12 inches. I can't say I like the rear sight(grove in the strap). Is there sights I could use that would look some what PC?

It's should get up to about 52 today so I'm going to try some .454 balls. I have a mold for them so I'll make a few this morning and see what happens.

 

[Brasilikilt]

Gshephard

The groove sight in the top strap to my knowledge is exactly how the originals were.......keep in mind that these were intended as battlefield sights, not for range shooting.
a 12" group isn't bad if you imagine that 12" group superimposed on an enraged attacker charging you with a bayonetted musket......pretty much all the balls in your 12" group will go into him

Also I've heard it mentioned several times that the front sights on many C&B pistols are too tall and cause the pistol to shoot low. You might want to bring a good file to the range and make your adjustments accordingly

hope this helps

 

[Ed Blake]

I shot my '61 navy for the first time this past weekend and had a similar experience until I figured out how not to load a C&B pistol. Firstly, I discovered that you need to ease the ball into the cylinder, not jam it in with one big stroke. Less deformation of the ball equals better accuracy. I tried .480 and .475 balls and the gun actually liked the .475 better, much to my surprise. They are much easier to load. Also, a greased wonder wad improves group size and makes clean-up much quicker..

 

[crockett]

You didn't say if you were shooting from a rest but you should just to work up the best load, then, with that load, shoot off hand. At 20 yards you ought to be getting about 2 1/2" groups. Cap and ball guns are about as accurate as any other hand gun. The long barrel helps a lot.
In my experience 1. Heavy charges often help. 2. Have the ball out near the end of the cylinder(NO AIR SPACE)!! Use a filler or wads if needed. I think the tighter fitting ball should help.

 

[gshepard]

I have not used a rest, but I will today. I'll try it with both .451 and .454.

 

[gerryherd]

Is there anything I can do to tighten up the grouping?

Common 'tricks' that come to mind are :
use a light charge (maybe 20-25 grains) and use corn meal to take up space so the ball will seat just below the chamber mouth.

Try a 454 rather than 451 ball

Load and shoot several rounds from one chamber, then change targets and shoot from the next chamber, etc. You may find they don't all shoot to the same place with respect to your point of aim. When target shooting, only load and shoot the 'best' chambers; i.e. those that group the tightest and/or those that group to the same place.

Keep a cleaning rod handy and before reloading, run a couple of damp patches to keep the fouling from building up in the barrel. (Only do that if the gun is empty!)

Dry-fire practice - roll up some paper and put in the frame between hammer and frame as a cushion so the hammer won't deform the nipples. Pick a spot on the wall as a surrogate target and practice your grip and trigger pull until you don't see the front sight 'jump' when the hammer drops. (Obviously, another drill to be done only when the gun is unloaded).

Good luck.

 

[Nightwind]

Oh, Okay. Now I know which one you bought. You have what is called an "as issued". V groove in top strap, not the model with the adjustable rear sight. I have three as issued, and they each have different front sights.

Ok guy, now we're getting somewhere! First off, that model, the as issued, is a toughie because of the small area that you have for sighting, in the rear portion. And sometimes the front sight is too wide, and makes it difficult to find when looking through the rear sight.

The first question is what type of front sight do you have? Basicly, there are four kinds; truncated cone (screws in straight down from the top like a screw). Straight pin, that screws straight down from the top. Dove tailed straight in from the muzzle. Or dove tailed which move side ways from left to right or vice versa. Also whether the front sight has a half moon shape at the top. Lets determine that first and we'll go from there.

 

[gshepard]

The front sight is a round peg that the top half is flat. I'm guessing that it screws in.

Today was much better. :grin: I used 22 grains of Pyrodex P, corn meal, .454 round ball and bore butter. Each group from a cylinder was about 6 inches, verses 13 yesterday with the .451.

The biggest problem today was holding my elevation. The wind was blowing around 20 mph with 30 gust. I was able to hold my grouping around 3 to 4 inches side to side, but 6 to 7 inches up and down. I can line up the sights of in a straight line but seem to have a problem shooting the same elevations. :hmm:

 

[Nightwind]

With that kind of wind, it's really hard to tell, especially if you're shooting offhand. Fighting the wind with an outstretched arm?!.....whew, I can't do too well either. You may be heeling the pistol when the shot breaks? Or not gripping it consistantly. I would say try it a few times in decent weather before adjusting anything at this point.

 

[mec]

Here are a number of groups with various revolvers loaded pretty much as you did. Pyrodex p with ball sizes ranging from .375-.380 to .451-.454-457 , no underwad but grease- either bore butter or crisco over the ball. A high wind and other environmental factors probably made shooting difficult but I don't believe that a load of 27 pyrodex P would have caused the groups to scatter.