Half stock hawkin flintlock time period

[tenngun]

The idea of the four door four wheel drive corvette is going in the wrong direction. We have the tech to build such a car, and it would be cutting edge. Jake and Sam grew up with flintlocks. Putting one on a half stock would have required no leap forward in tech, it would be a step backwards. It could have been no trouble. Not like putting four wheel drive on a corvette. This would be more akin to asking Apple to build you a 1990 style cell phone, that could just call and have no text or apps, but put it in a modern smart phone case.
Tons of flints were being sent west up through the WTBS. However by the time Hawkens started making half stocks precusion was the rage. People didn't reinact back then.

 

[sarcasmn]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I have learned a lot. Maybe I was wrong to put "Hawken" in the description. It was only my uneducated way of describing the half stock style of this rifle. I am looking to do some treking with this rifle. I have recently been contacted by a local member of the AMM and was invited to go on a weekend trip with them. I was asked about my gear and if I have anything appropriate. I have a Lyman Deerstalker, a Cabelas Blue Ridge which is a Pedersoli Frontier and this rifle. I know the Deerstalker is a modern hunter and the Pedersoli would be more appropriate for a more colonial time period. I was just trying to get a feel for the time period that this rifle would fit in and what kind of persona I could create. I added some pictures to help.

 

[Tom Compton]

Beautiful flinter. Mike did a great job.
Tom Compton

 

[sarcasmn]

It is beautiful. I grew up in Ohio loving stories about Tecumseh and Blue Jacket and Boone. I have done some primitives camping experiments with clothing and equipment from that time period. Then I found this rifle and love it. I would like to learn more of the primitive skills and The AMM guys here seem very friendly. I would expect that they would want me to be period correct and I think this rifle will work. Since it is a flinter I would think more the early fur trade but I am by no means an authority and was looking for some informed opinions here as to what time periods this rifle would fit.

 

[Grenadier1758]

That is a beautiful rifle. With the lock style being pointed at the tail, and it being very well fitted to the stock, it is more like and English scroll guard rifle built as a half stock.

Perhaps a Creamer who built exceptionally fine rifles in the English style just across the river from St. Louis. Perhaps a scroll guard Henry although that rifle would have a single trigger.

You will have to find the necessary documentation that will satisfy the AMM criteria. Ask them what they think of your rifle. What rifles are they carrying?

 

[kodiakmarine]

Nicklaus Hacken (pronounced Hawken) was a gunmaker in Bern, Switzerland. The Hackens were German speaking Swiss. He emigrated to Philadelphia in 1750. His grandson John, a gunsmih at Harpers Ferry, changed the spelling to Hawken, probably because he tired of hearing his name mispronounced. It is not a mispelling, but a change made by a member of the Hawken family.

 

[kodiakmarine]

That is a beautiful rifle. It fits well in the 1830s. That is a rifle to be proud of. It was certainly inspired by the rifles of Jake and Sam. - John

 

[Lonegun1894]

Beautiful rifle!

 

[tenngun]

That's a fine looking riflegun. AMM boys I have known were hard core about being hc...but will fall all over them selfs to be helpful to a newbe who wants to do it right. They may look askance at a 1840s style half stock with a flintlock, but in the end I bet they will do everything they can to make you feel apart of their group, as long as they think you want to be apart of their group.

 

[sarcasmn]

Now what does it take to say something is historically correct? I have found a half stock flintlock made by Silas Allen Jr for Colonel Jacob Bates that was made in 1820 in Massachusetts. The rifle is at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Now to me that is documentation.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The rifle would have to look as if the rifle was built to the pattern pictured at the site which possesses the original build. You shouldn't try to pass off any half stock rifle as correct. It needs to closely represent the original rifle.

Colonel Bates rifle is correct. A T/C flint "Hawken" is not.

 

[Tom Compton]

Again: the 1803 Harper's Ferry is a half stock flintlock and 100% HC.
TC

 

[tenngun]

The rifle is well within the technology of the time, and could have existed. I sure wouldn't kick the owner out of my camp for having one. Some folks think you have to have a meusem piece, painting of written documentation to prove every bit of your outfit. I can't in my case, I try ,but could stir up some fights with what I think vs what others think.
That's a fine gun, that gun could well have existed back then, I would be proud to own it, but.... I don't THINK you would have found that style of gun with a flint lock back then.
There are camps that won't let you bring a baker in, it's canvas held up on poles for Petes sake. Even at a very strict tourist event that gun would demonstrate how a ml worked and what ml looked like. However if you want to be as close as you can to the MM period that's not the gun. Yes at on timed I owned a flint lock half stock Hawken.

 

[rich pierce]

Fine rifle as I'd expect from the builder. We can argue what coulda been and never come to a conclusion. Looks like an 1840s genuine Hawken half stock with a flintlock. Obviously a special order. Does not look 1830s to me but I might be cutting it too fine. Don't think the OP asked could or would the Hawken shop have made one like this. I love the lock choice. Arguments that the Hawken brothers would not use a "late Ketland" do not take into account that this Chambers lock isn't marked Ketland. It's marketed as a late Ketland style. It represents a type of late flintlock, well made, available in the trade, and copied everywhere. I like it a lot more than the usual late English lock often used on full stock flintlock Hawken builds.

 

[Cowboy]

A flintlock halfstock rifle was not uncommon. For instance, What about the U.S.Model 1803 Harpers Ferry Rifle. Was built from 1803-1806 for our armed forces. It was a halfstock flintlock rifle. Respectfully, cowboys1062.

 

[sarcasmn]

A flintlock Hawken style rifle was not that uncommon. I was having a conversation with gun maker Larry Callahan. He was telling me that he had actually found references to people asking to have Hawken style rifles converted from cap to flint. If you were going into the wilderness to stay for a while you might run out of caps. He gave me a list of makers that were making half stock flint rifles before 1820 such as Joseph Manton. Then as now once the military adopted something like the 1803 Harpers Ferry, gun makers followed suit because civilians wanted those products. Much like the M16 now.