Has anyone had any problems with hard fouling while using bore butter or any other lubricated patches or bullets
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Hard Fouling
- Thread starter smo
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Only with Elephant powder.
What is the best way to clean the hard fouling out of the bore ? I have cleaned the bore several times with hot water & soap. It will shoot good for 2 shots then bullet/ prb's go all over the paper
Best thing since sliced bread...been using the TC Natural Lube 1000 version of bore butter constantly for 17 years.smo said:
One thing to remember about any waxy type lube is that they are not very "wet"...so during dry, low humidity periods, fouling will dry out faster so a wetter patch helps during those times...for example I use Hoppes No9 PLUS during the cold dry winter months here, but it's Natural Lube 1000 during the other 9 months of the year...and its the only lube I use for hunting or to lube the bores of all my muzzleloaders.
And, I agree with Rebel, some Elephant powder I tried to use years ago left a residue that dried hard instantly...reminded me of tiny pieces of cinder blocks...horrible batch of powder...Goex ever since and life is good.
Thanks for the info, i think my problem started some time back when i shot some pre lubed Buffalo bullets .
I don't know about shooting it in the low damp country. But I do know in the very dry high country of the west it can and does cake up the bore. It can be very hard to get out of the barrel after it drys.
I use H#9BP+ it works great. This of course is in very dry air. But then I have used Orange Pledge and it worked fine. I use pledge in my English flint target pistol. :thumbsup:
I use H#9BP+ it works great. This of course is in very dry air. But then I have used Orange Pledge and it worked fine. I use pledge in my English flint target pistol. :thumbsup:
Thanks for your reply Redwing, I was in North Al. in the fall when this problem started which is fairly dry also.
I was on a turkey hunt near Moulten {SP?} Alabama in the fall of 1970. I think the place was the Black Warrior Forest? I also think it was in North Alabama not sure.
We had a good time. The down side we were picked up by the local Sheriff. All turned out well. Did get to meet a few Cotton Mouthes along the way. :thumbsup:
We had a good time. The down side we were picked up by the local Sheriff. All turned out well. Did get to meet a few Cotton Mouthes along the way. :thumbsup:
Redwing , You were right in my neck of the woods. I live about 25 miles as the crow flies from the Bankhead National Forrest which includes the Black Warrior Management Area all of which are open to public hunting . Some large cotton mouths do lie along the steams & there are some big rattlers are around too!
paulvallandigham
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SMO: Try using a bore brush to physically get all the crud out of the barrel, and just don't rely on soap and water, or other solvents. I do like Hoppes Black Powder Solvent, and used it with my first rifle to good effect. I have not tried the newest version of that solvent, yet.
You may have some corrosion in the barrel where that crud built up, if it was allowed to sit for any time before you cleaned it out. It happens. Use a wet, double patch on a cleaning jag to make a tight fit in the barrel and then " feel " for any roughness at that place in the barrel. If its there, that is part of the problem you are having with the crud building up again.
Remove the roughness by wrapping steel wool over a brush, and working it back and forth in the barrel. I also like to use a lapping compound on a tight patch, or some of the members here have had good luck using those green scrbber pads sold by 3M in the grocery store for cleaning pots and pans. One way or another, you want to lap the barrel to reduce or remove the rusted area where the crud build up. The lapping will not destroy accuracy, and may in fact help it. As long as the last 8 inches of barrel behind the muzzle are tight, you are going to get good accuracy.
I read someone else's post that talked about Elephant powder. If that is what you have been using, try Goex, or Swiss, or some of the other real black powders. AND, last of all, you may as well consign yourself to cleaning that barrel between shots. You got into this problem trying to shoot without cleaning, and the only way to avoid it in the future is to clean. Some people, like Roundball, live in areas where its both hot and humid enough to keep fouling soft. He only has to use a true solvent during his winter months. His winter is 3 months. Mine is 5+ months. Where I was raise, winter was good for more than 6 months of the year. If you have lots of wind, its likely that your relative humidity is not going to be very high, and your residue will dry quickly in the barrel.
Don't rely on directions found in manufacturer's manuals, or even some found in books. What you have to do to keep the gun shooting well is part science, and part Voodoo, in that it can vary from day to day, based on temperature, wind and humity. It varies seasonally in most places. The good shooters are constantly changing what they do when loading and cleaning their guns to reflect the conditions on the range or in the field THAT DAY. You will find certain things that work for you any time of the year. You will settle on one thickness of cleaning patches, and a certain diameter of cleaning jag for your ramrods. I found, for instance, that when the temperature is below zero, here, that I have to clean with alcohol. Nothing else works as well. I don't try to lube the barrel other than using a pre-lubed patch for my round ball using Wonderlube. I may change that once I try running a lubed cleaning patch down the barrel after I seat the PRB and do some accuracy testing off the bench in cold weather. I found that when I lubed the whole barrel after seating my ball in the summertime, I got much more consistent velocities shot for shot, and my velocity rose about 20 fps. Now, I have to see what if anything happens below freezing. I don't like hunting when its that cold, but I have done it before, and can do it again. Learn to be flexible, but remember that the goal is to get flawless performance from your rifle, so you can concentrate on the sight picture, stance, let off and follow through, and not be worried that the gun won't go off, or that a ring of crud is building up in the barrel that will prevent you from loading the next ball. I have yet to hear from anyone who says a fouled barrel shoots to the same POI as does his unfouled, clean, barrel. My solution is to clean the barrel between shot. Some people foul their barrel before loading that first round. I never got consistency in the POI doing it that way. Your experience may differ.
You may have some corrosion in the barrel where that crud built up, if it was allowed to sit for any time before you cleaned it out. It happens. Use a wet, double patch on a cleaning jag to make a tight fit in the barrel and then " feel " for any roughness at that place in the barrel. If its there, that is part of the problem you are having with the crud building up again.
Remove the roughness by wrapping steel wool over a brush, and working it back and forth in the barrel. I also like to use a lapping compound on a tight patch, or some of the members here have had good luck using those green scrbber pads sold by 3M in the grocery store for cleaning pots and pans. One way or another, you want to lap the barrel to reduce or remove the rusted area where the crud build up. The lapping will not destroy accuracy, and may in fact help it. As long as the last 8 inches of barrel behind the muzzle are tight, you are going to get good accuracy.
I read someone else's post that talked about Elephant powder. If that is what you have been using, try Goex, or Swiss, or some of the other real black powders. AND, last of all, you may as well consign yourself to cleaning that barrel between shots. You got into this problem trying to shoot without cleaning, and the only way to avoid it in the future is to clean. Some people, like Roundball, live in areas where its both hot and humid enough to keep fouling soft. He only has to use a true solvent during his winter months. His winter is 3 months. Mine is 5+ months. Where I was raise, winter was good for more than 6 months of the year. If you have lots of wind, its likely that your relative humidity is not going to be very high, and your residue will dry quickly in the barrel.
Don't rely on directions found in manufacturer's manuals, or even some found in books. What you have to do to keep the gun shooting well is part science, and part Voodoo, in that it can vary from day to day, based on temperature, wind and humity. It varies seasonally in most places. The good shooters are constantly changing what they do when loading and cleaning their guns to reflect the conditions on the range or in the field THAT DAY. You will find certain things that work for you any time of the year. You will settle on one thickness of cleaning patches, and a certain diameter of cleaning jag for your ramrods. I found, for instance, that when the temperature is below zero, here, that I have to clean with alcohol. Nothing else works as well. I don't try to lube the barrel other than using a pre-lubed patch for my round ball using Wonderlube. I may change that once I try running a lubed cleaning patch down the barrel after I seat the PRB and do some accuracy testing off the bench in cold weather. I found that when I lubed the whole barrel after seating my ball in the summertime, I got much more consistent velocities shot for shot, and my velocity rose about 20 fps. Now, I have to see what if anything happens below freezing. I don't like hunting when its that cold, but I have done it before, and can do it again. Learn to be flexible, but remember that the goal is to get flawless performance from your rifle, so you can concentrate on the sight picture, stance, let off and follow through, and not be worried that the gun won't go off, or that a ring of crud is building up in the barrel that will prevent you from loading the next ball. I have yet to hear from anyone who says a fouled barrel shoots to the same POI as does his unfouled, clean, barrel. My solution is to clean the barrel between shot. Some people foul their barrel before loading that first round. I never got consistency in the POI doing it that way. Your experience may differ.
Thanks for the great info Paul I will try the solents for "Black Powder" I have tried Hoppes cleaning solvent & a brass brush before without any luck.
If you're trying to get any kind of buildup out of a bore, Shooter's Choice Black Powder Cleaning Gel is the real deal...seems to dissolve anything in a bore, and as the instructions say, will dissolve a bronze bore brush overnight :shocked2:...(I read these instructions the following day after discovering the bore brush I had used the day before was eaten up)
I recovered a couple of used barrels with it that I'd bought cheap because the owners had said they were "shot out"...was just build-up of some sort.
I recovered a couple of used barrels with it that I'd bought cheap because the owners had said they were "shot out"...was just build-up of some sort.
Dave Rosenthal
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Every once in a while we all have a situation that needs some attention. You're no different than any of us!
I'd be remiss if I didn't ask such a stupid question, so here goes: what do your patches look like and what patch, ball combo are you using? Reason that I ask is that this happened to me. I had a very small burr in the barrel that was ripping my patches as I seated the ball. The net result was a "blown patch" (torn really) that was letting gases and crud have a field day. I switched to Maxi's and fired hundreds of rounds. When I went back to PRB everything was fine! The burr was gone! What I didn't know at the time was that I could have lapped the bore to get the burr out and just kept shooting the PRB's! As soon as the burr was gone, so was the crud ring!
A $10.00 bore light would have saved me a lot of trouble, but I was a newbie and didn't know such a thing existed.
Hope this helps some! Now go out their and make some more SMOKE!!
Dave
I'd be remiss if I didn't ask such a stupid question, so here goes: what do your patches look like and what patch, ball combo are you using? Reason that I ask is that this happened to me. I had a very small burr in the barrel that was ripping my patches as I seated the ball. The net result was a "blown patch" (torn really) that was letting gases and crud have a field day. I switched to Maxi's and fired hundreds of rounds. When I went back to PRB everything was fine! The burr was gone! What I didn't know at the time was that I could have lapped the bore to get the burr out and just kept shooting the PRB's! As soon as the burr was gone, so was the crud ring!
A $10.00 bore light would have saved me a lot of trouble, but I was a newbie and didn't know such a thing existed.
Hope this helps some! Now go out their and make some more SMOKE!!
Dave
Roundball, sounds like what i need to try I will see if i can locate some Thanks
Hey Smokin, the round balls were Hornadays patches were T/C lubed I'm not sure what thickness they were, I'ts been about a year since i shot the old smoke pole 
Due to the way it was shooting. It shoots the same with maxi's as with PRB's about 2 shots then it's off .
Due to the way it was shooting. It shoots the same with maxi's as with PRB's about 2 shots then it's off .
Mad Professor
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For target work as suggested try a softer/wetter lube. A really soggy spit patch works great but will put crud in the breech; snap a cap every few shots.
With conicals I wipe between shots. I've had better results with Buffalos than Hornadays, lube seems a little "wetter".
I always seem to still feel the "hard" ring just above where the bullet was seated when cleaning and/or loading the next shot. Key is to clean or use patch/lube that takes care of this (and does not get stuck....). If it takes wet patch/dry patch for conicals so be it. For really accurate work with conicals I do wet/dry/lubed patches, then load, snap a cap every 6-8 shots.
Hunting loads I always sight/practice with clean/wiped barrel. The first shot counts.
With conicals I wipe between shots. I've had better results with Buffalos than Hornadays, lube seems a little "wetter".
I always seem to still feel the "hard" ring just above where the bullet was seated when cleaning and/or loading the next shot. Key is to clean or use patch/lube that takes care of this (and does not get stuck....). If it takes wet patch/dry patch for conicals so be it. For really accurate work with conicals I do wet/dry/lubed patches, then load, snap a cap every 6-8 shots.
Hunting loads I always sight/practice with clean/wiped barrel. The first shot counts.
old gunsmith
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You might try a animal based lube such as mutton tallow and the old standby "black solve" both availablein fron Dixie Gun Works. When shooting out in Colorado where it was hot and dry I found the tallow to work well when using both Goex and Swiss. Black Solve has been around since the 1950's and has always worked well. You might also try a 25% solution of Castrol Super Clean in warm water for final clean up. Super Clean is a very effective water based cleaner we use around the shop for all sorts of heavey duty cleaning- it has a flash rust inhibitor built in- avaiable from auto parts stores. Regards Old Gunsmith
Good advice Mr. Mad Professor thanks
Mr Gunsmith thanks for the adice also
