Has anyone bought a set of wheellock castings...

[PedroB]

From the[url] rifleshoppe.com[/url]?
If so, what were they like?
Were they easy to assemble? Were the springs pre-tempered?
I'm looking to make a wheellock this winter and was thinking of getting the German Wheellock set of castings to complete it (I already have the barrel and the wood for the stock).
Any info is appreciated! :thanks:

 

[WRussell]

Do a search for "wheellock", user name "vern", for a year.

 

[PedroB]

Thank you very much!

 

[PedroB]

Ok I checked but it really doesn't help me much.
I know that TRS can be slow to deliver and that if they don't have the item in stock I should pick something else.
What I really want to know is this;
Are they worth it?
Are they difficult to finish?
Is the price-to-labor ratio worth it?
Thanks in advance!

 

[benvenuto]

Are they worth it?
well, TRS, Blackley and Sons, and Schroter are the only ones in the game as far as I know, and price wise they are much of a muchness. Can't speak for the quality of the castings personally.

Are they difficult to finish?
You get a bag of castings. repeat, a bag of roughly shaped parts, not a kit in the the traditional sense. You will need files of all sizes and shapes, jewellers rifflers, drills, a drill press, taps and dies, emery paper. If you are skilled with flexishaft machine, then one of those cant be bad to have, with all the little polishing doo-dads that jewellers use. You will need to heat treat all the parts that need heat treating.

Is the price-to-labor ratio worth it?
You mean getting them to do the assembly? Depends what your time is worth, how much you want to learn, and what the cost of a new lock is if you completly F*** it up. Just looking at the bits and pieces, i know i would take over 50 hours to get it right.

:results:

 

[Leonredbeard]

Benvenuto,
I built the 535 German lock without most of the tools you mentioned. It can be done. Patience is a virtue. If you don't feel right when you want to work on the lock, go lay down, read a book, go for a walk, or ANYTHING ELSE, until you do feel right. Then work on one piece as if it is the only piece you have left to work on. I spen many, many mor hours than fifty on mine. It does work. I won second place on a target at the Rifle Frolic over Labor Day weekend with it. My bag of cast parts arrived in six weeks or less.

Wheellock hunter,
If you buy the German sporting lock cast parts set, I will send you life size drawings of the parts and their positions on the lock. Believe me, it really helps.
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[benvenuto]

volatpulvia,
:agree:
I should have prefaced my comment with "the average 21st century person would want to have the following tools..."
of course working in the old ways, all you need are two hands and a brain to guide them :winking:

In the old days all they had were a few files and a bow-drill

which reminds me I need to look for a cheap copy of "Espingarda Perfeyta" while I am still online...

 

[PedroB]

volatpluvia,
Thanks I appreciate it. I'm guessing that by 535 you mean the engraved german wheellock. That was my first choice followed by the dutch wheellock as a second choice.
Do they sell a finished lock in either of these two patterns? It doesn't say.
Personally I can deal with the castings and finish them easily, it's the heat treating that I'd have trouble with.
I might just break down and call them and ask.
And I certainly appreciate the offer of the drawings. I'll take you up on that if I get the unassembled set.
:thanks:

 

[Leonredbeard]

wheellockhunter,
I thought I had seen a completed 535 for sale at TRS. It was pricey, I'm thinking in the $350 price range. Yes, taht is the engraved German lock with the covered wheel.
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[Bookie]

Wheellock Hunter--I just built the "Dutch" wheellock kit from TRS. I question the word Dutch as I feel that Germanic is a more a accurate discription. I see that they changed the name of the Dutch wheellock kit to Germanic. I digress. The lock probably has 60 hours in it and 2 phone calls to the shoppe. Along with that comes frustration, sheer terror, confusion (since there are no instructions and I have never seen a wheellock up close and personal)and an expanded vocabulary. Seems like everyone usually puts the prettier and fancier German lock together. I departed from the norm on the top jaw screw. Since the lock is Dutch, I turned an open tulip that has a screwdriver slot which matches the blade on my spanner.
All in all, it has been most satisfying to finally get it to work. Huzzah! Glad I did it. Sent the springs to them for tempering which they will do for free. Made several of screws for those that needed solid shafts because parts pivot on them. At the moment, I am reshaping the lock plate to more resemble the smaller pistol lock plate and then I shall harden the 2 sears and wheel. Cheers, Bookie

 

[flintkeeper]

Bookie is slightly exagerrating: it is somewhat worse than that.

But! when it is built and ready to spin, your joy is endless, and the only thing you remember is that YOU HAVE A WHEELLOCK!!!!
I know, because I also have a Germanic wheellock kit.
Of course, Bookie did a much better job, and much faster...

As far as the speed of delivery by TRS is concerned, I personally didn't have a problem with it.
Sure, I wish they were a tad more organized, but overall I am satisfied.
I first had to make sure that they had a kit I needed, and then ordered it.

Yrs. truly,

Flintfan.

 

[benvenuto]

maybe you guys should write a proper assembly manual for us and post it here?
:winking:

 

[Leonredbeard]

Ok, Benvenuto,
first, you fit the bridle to the back of the plate, drill and tap the bolt that holds the front end to the plate. Then you polish the axle surfaces that ride in the holes thru the plate and the bridle. Then you drill the bridle hole size thru BOTH the bridle and the plate. Without removing the assembly from the drillpress, you drill the larger hole thru the plate. Then you assemble the axle/wheel/plate/bridle combo. Then assemble the chain. Once the chain fits in the axle and you have the link and axle drilled, and the wheel spins freely in the plate and bridle, SHAPE THEM SPRINGS AND GET THEM OFF TO WHOEVER IS GOING TO HARDEN/TEMPER THEM! From here away you are just fitting parts around the assembly from every direction you can think of. Choose a place and start, hee, hee! :: :crackup: I hope this helps.
God bless.
volatpluvia
PS. use number 4 bolt blanks for pins in your chain, then your chain won't break.

 

I built their 535 wheellock and had to do some welding because of voids in the castings. Actually I think that some of the parts should not have left the shop. E.g., it would have been impossible to fit the brass wheel cover without brazing extra thickness.

I removed most of the cast-in engraving to get a clean surface.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Robert/Sfl
You did a really nice job on yours. I like the clean look. That is a right handsome button for releasing the the pan cover. Does your lock work well?
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

>Does your lock work well?

The wheel turns.. I never shot it because other parts including the stock did not arrive. Will finish the gun when I retire (in 33 years or so). For the cover release I used a brass head with an M3 thread (furniture accessory filed to a simple design) on a 4x4mm square shank filed from a 6mm round shank. I saw square shanks on several originals and thought it is a nice idea because the button does not rotate.

 

[Teleoceras]

Robert:

Is that the lock you were waiting for several years?

Very nice work that you did with the mechanism! :RO:

 

The lock parts came after only one year, I just could not get any more of the parts I needed (particularly, the stock). So I went ahead and assembled it anyway. 4 1/2 years after my order and after several promises that did not turn true, I cancelled the remaining order. Some day when I feel real good I guess will make the stock from blank.

 

[benvenuto]

To summarise then:


INSTRUCTIONS FOR ASSEMBLING WHEELLOCKS FROM THE RIFLE SHOPPE

1)You fit the bridle to the back of the plate, drill and tap the bolt that holds the front end to the plate.

2)Then you polish the axle surfaces that ride in the holes thru the plate and the bridle.

3)Then you drill the bridle hole size thru BOTH the bridle and the plate. Without removing the assembly from the drillpress, you drill the larger hole thru the plate. Then you assemble the axle/wheel/plate/bridle combo.

4)Then assemble the chain. Use number 4 bolt blanks for pins in your chain, then your chain won't break.


5)Once the chain fits in the axle and you have the link and axle drilled, and the wheel spins freely in the plate and bridle, SHAPE THEM SPRINGS AND GET THEM OFF TO WHOEVER IS GOING TO HARDEN/TEMPER THEM!
(that would be me - otherwise I should throw my anvils in the harbour RIGHT NOW)

6)From here away you are just fitting parts around the assembly from every direction you can think of. Choose a place and start, hee, hee!


thankyou, it certainly will!
I will file these away for future reference
(can you believe that pun is unintentional?) :crackup:

 

[benvenuto]

that button is a very nice touch... I like! :m2c: