Has anyone Chrongraphed Loads

[Sperit de bois]

Got to go with that,,K.I.S.S.Keep It Simple Stanley!!!!
If you get a copy of "Black Powder Guide,The Complete Guild to Muzzle-Loading,rifle,pistol and shotgun--Flint and Percussion" by Major Geo.C .Nonte,jr and go to pg 210, Powder Charges and Load Tables, MAJOR Nonte has done some intensive research and first hand work on the subject. Both PRB and Minie and Conical.Gives the barrel both lands/groves ball weight,size,powder was used different lenght barrels,lube he used,why you can be in a stooper before your finished. reading..Good stuff
If you can find one go for it,,lots of great information and other stuff to talk about in deer camp.
Major Nonte retired from the Army Ordnance Corp 20 years, the book above was published by Stoeger Publishing Company 55 Ruta Court,South Hackensack,NJ 07606

 

[Sperit de bois]

but did anyone figure the off set for heat,humidity and how close you are to sea level?????

 

[juancho]

.45 cal Kit I put together last January.
G.M. swamp barrell 44 in.Goex FFFG
20grs 900 fps
25grs 1120 fps
30grs 1270 fps
35grs 1400 fps
40grs 1500 fps
45grs 1600 fps
50grs 1700 fps
55rgs 1820 fps
60grs 1930 fps
70grs 2010 fps
80grs 2140 fps

I found these numbers to be a lot faster than what I was getting with ny 45 Pedersoli 42in barrel

 

[Sperit de bois]

When I read the chart in Nonte's B/P( referanced in a prior posting) pg214 ref the 45 cal the chart indicated the optimum barrel lenght for a 45 would be 32", shooting PRB. The chart shows, starting at 50 grn FFF G/O powder the fps hold steady or start to drop off as the barrel gets longer. from 28" to 43".
E.G. 70 grns FFF 28"-1760 fps
32"-1980 fps,
36"-1974 fps
40"-1925 fps
43"-1969 fps
Bore Diameter.452, ball.445 (133 grns),.015 patch, Crisco lube,FFF G/O powder.
Interesting to read the chart reading through the other calibers charts the barrel lenght appear to indicate ,,in some if not most, that a 32"barrel is just about optimum.
Granted this is for 1969 data ,I cant say for any assurance that it hold true for today,,just sharing another source...
My 45PRB, 36" barrel,65grn FFF Pyrodex(P)works for me. Now take all this data,your shooting box, rifle and head for the range,,good day to burn some powder,,,,Never had a bad day for burning powder,some better than others but no bad one's.

 

[Geraldo]

Good post ohio ramrod. Grouping is all that is important. The chronograph is an expensive waste of time.

Knowledge is never a bad thing.

Roundball, if my math is correct, your .45 and .50 data both show increases of over 100fps/10gr of additional powder up to 60gr. After that the gain is less than 100fps/10gr of powder.

So the formula is correct about that, it's just that the point at which there is minimal or no increase isn't one that anyone is going to reach in the real world.

As far as downrange measurement goes, there will certainly be some difference between the mathematical and real numbers, but probably not a lot.

 

[roundball]

Good post ohio ramrod. Grouping is all that is important. The chronograph is an expensive waste of time.

Knowledge is never a bad thing.

Roundball, if my math is correct, your .45 and .50 data both show increases of over 100fps/10gr of additional powder up to 60gr. After that the gain is less than 100fps/10gr of powder.

Correct, and learning is never a "waste of time"...LOL
Particularly when the main problem with heavily preached keyboard formulas and old wives tales is that they're usually incorrect.
Words to the effect that "anything over such and such burns outside the barrel, can be picked up off of white snow and used again"...etc.

When members refuted that with logic and live fire photos, the preaching changed to something like "anything over such and such is wasted because it doesn't increase velocity"...and then that was proven incorrect by chronograph results from manufacturers and individual shooters / members...not keyboards.

So when that was refuted, then the mantra became something like "anything over such and such is not needed to harvest game".....with zero parameters identifying the type game, the size of the game...(ie: a 90lb Does vs. Moose?)...the distances, angles, bones, etc...as if every big game animal and hunting condition was identical from muzzle to infinity...LOL.

Then after that was refuted, the mantra became something like "it's good if the projectile stops inside the game because that means it used up all its energy inside the game and didn't "waste any" after passing through beyond the animal".


If Internet forums aren't an excellent laboratory study in the nature of human beings, I don't know what is...LOL

:grin:

 

[Trench]

I compared Round Ball's and Juancho's data from their .45's. Round Ball's was from a 32in barrel and Juancho's was a 44in.

I added 10fps per inch of barrel difference (rule of thumb) to Round Ball's information and the velocity almost matches Juancho's until you get up to 50gr, and then it doesn't even come close. I just found that interesting.

 

[roundball]

Now that I have a 42" x .45cal barrel, I want to run it through the chronograph this summer just to see how it does.
I'll be comparing my own components, methods, and time of year against my own previous tests...so basically the only difference will be the barrels.

 

[Geraldo]

Correct, and learning is never a "waste of time"...LOL

True. To make a good shot you need to know what your rifle can do, and honestly assess your own ability. Then you make choices based on that knowledge.

 

[juancho]

A lot of ephasis is ,in my view, put wronglly into speed.I pay more attention to foot pouds , as that is the key to really see what you get out of a given amount of powder and barrel combination.
As an example, lets just look at the numbers I posted before.
Say 30grs = 1270 fps = 455 FPE = aprox. 15FPE/grain
60grs= 1930 fps = 1050FPE = aprox. 17.5 FPE/grain
80grs = 2140 fps = 1290 FPE = 16 FPE/grain
It seams to peak at 60 grs, but 80 is more efficient than 30, and even when the gain in speed is not linear, you have to remember that the energy is proportional to the square of the speed. A gain of 100 fps from 1000 to 1100 equals 59FPE incease, now from 2000 to 2100 is an icrease of 115 FPE.
If you were to crunch the numbers you will find that the energy output mantains a more linear increase than speed.
Energy is provided in the form of gunpowder and the more you put in the more you get out, as simple as that.The only good way to compare efficiency is to convert to FPE/grain and forget all toghether about speed.
But we must not forget that the most important factor to any shooting is accuracy, and only range testing will decide that.
I have 4 guns and the values range form 11FPE/grain to 17.5FPE/grain for round ball.
The use of conicals will increase those numbers dramatically , pointing to what we already know that the conicals are a more efficient prejectile, if not as much fun, compare to PRB.
Just my 2cents

 

[jdkerstetter]

While I respect your opinion allow me to cherry pick your post to give mine.

A lot of ephasis is ,in my view, put wronglly into speed.I pay more attention to foot pouds , as that is the key to really see what you get out of a given amount of powder and barrel combination.

Powder efficiency, whether measured in velocity or energy is your choice, niether has anything to do with target shooting or hunting loads. Measuring powder efficiency only productive in saving powder. I tend to not care about efficiency and dwell on the most velocity I can get accurately. More velocity always results in more energy, no matter the efficiency. A grain or two more or less isn't going to break the bank.

The only good way to compare efficiency is to convert to FPE/grain and forget all toghether about speed.

As already stated; more speed always equalls more energy. Doesn't matter to me how many grains it takes to get it.

But we must not forget that the most important factor to any shooting is accuracy

IMO this is not true. In close range bullseye matches maybe, but at longer ranges, where wind is an issue, the fastest bullet with acceptable accuracy for the intended target will win the day, all else being equall. Accuracy alone is not enough or energy and velocity wouldn't matter at all.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Geraldo]

Since we're cherry picking:

I tend to not care about efficiency and dwell on the most velocity I can get accurately.

I agree that if group size doesn't change I'll take another 75-100fps, but if accuracy really degrades then I'm not so interested in the extra velocity.

A grain or two more or less isn't going to break the bank.

True, but for targets or plinking, why spend more than you have to. My .40 shoots 30gr just as accurately as 40gr. If I shoot 50 rounds that's another 15 shots of powder and the targets never complain. :wink:

at longer ranges, where wind is an issue, the fastest bullet with acceptable accuracy for the intended target will win the day, all else being equal.

There's the rub: "acceptable accuracy" and "longer range". What's acceptable to you may be unacceptable to me, and what you consider within range I might not.

 

[Sperit de bois]

and then along comes "Energy" getting there fast is good,flat,sweet,but what does it have when it gets there???Lets take the 45 with70 grn FFF, PRB 133 GRN in a 32"barrel,,
Now that round is going down range at 1980 fps,,so what has it got for "energy"'when it gets there???? Math time,science stuff.It's a wonderful day in the neighborhood!!!!
If you take the Weight of the bullet ,133, and multiply that by a factor of 8.70 ( energy per Grain of bullet weight) you have the Energy at the Muzzle, of 1157.10
What has it got left at the down range target????
Went and burned powder today,,miserable weather,hot 98 and no wind in the pit,lost interest and quit early.
This has/is becoming a MR.Rodgers moment,it's all good reading,now lets go to the range and enjoy all our new found knowledge. Happy shooting.

 

[roundball]

and then along comes "Energy" getting there fast is good,flat,sweet,but what does it have when it gets there???Lets take the 45 with70 grn FFF, PRB 133 GRN in a 32"barrel,,
Now that round is going down range at 1980 fps,,so what has it got for "energy"'when it gets there???? Math time,science stuff.It's a wonderful day in the neighborhood!!!!
If you take the Weight of the bullet ,133, and multiply that by a factor of 8.70 ( energy per Grain of bullet weight) you have the Energy at the Muzzle, of 1157.10
What has it got left at the down range target????
Went and burned powder today,,miserable weather,hot 98 and no wind in the pit,lost interest and quit early.
This has/is becoming a MR.Rodgers moment,it's all good reading,now lets go to the range and enjoy all our new found knowledge. Happy shooting.

You seem to have responded to me, yet I can't make heads or tails out of the post...do you have a question?

 

[nkbj]

From the observed effects on animals hit with round ball I think that the rate of displacement (as in cubic inches of beastie per second) is what counts the most if you have already gotten the diameter part covered.
Some interesting trade offs come about when you go with larger diameter round ball. It's what everybody already knows but cranking up the calculator and laying out the figures was interesting.

 

[jdkerstetter]

I agree that if group size doesn't change I'll take another 75-100fps, but if accuracy really degrades then I'm not so interested in the extra velocity.

I agree, on targets I want the most accuracy I can wring out but on game I will compromise cloverleaf groups for extra energy. Think minute of heart vs. minute of angle...not a great difference.

True, but for targets or plinking, why spend more than you have to. My .40 shoots 30gr just as accurately as 40gr. If I shoot 50 rounds that's another 15 shots of powder and the targets never complain. :wink:

I too like my like to stretch my powder for plinking but when working up hunting loads I worry not about efficiency.

There's the rub: "acceptable accuracy" and "longer range". What's acceptable to you may be unacceptable to me, and what you consider within range I might not.

Without a doubt. But I would bet you and I are would find we agree as I pass on far more shots than I take. Nothing makes me sicker when hunting than wounded game that goes unrecovered. I tend to shoot the maximum velocity/energy I can while still keeping it in a group that I can cover with my hand. If it's beyond the range I can do that then the shot is not taken....and that can vary from gun to gun. A fowler shoots minute of heart at a lot shorter range than a rifle. :wink:

Enjoy, J.D.