Have you ever considered the cost of doing business

[oldwood]

Years ago , I figured out that , scratch building m/l guns didn't pay well enough to make a living. But I wanted to create a few of the guns using Shumways' books for ideas. What broke my heart , was back in 1970 , I made a friend ,Bob Kern , that ran a real M/l shop in Ligonier, Pa.. He was an old time original m/l dealer. That morning , on my way to work, I walked into his shop , and on the counter , lay an original Pannabecker longrifle , and it was for sale. Bob said , the guy that owned it , had sold it to him twice already , and Bob said it was bad luck for him to buy the rifle , a third time. However Bob said if I wanted it , he would get the gun for me for $200 , cash. I was just building a new house , and $200 , was almost two payments for me. To say I was disappointed , would be an understatement. But , coming from a poor upbringing , I knew, if I wanted something bad enough , just figure it out , and make it. Muzzleloading , became a major hobby, Finding parts dealers ,and other builders I found to be , a fun experience , as well. Oddly, I always disliked the stressful profession , I had taken up, but the money was good enough. Muzzleloading , became the thing that kept me sane, so I embraced all aspects of the sport ,and building m/l guns. As my building skills matured , I could have any original I could build. It's been fun...............oldwood

 

[springfield art]

Had an occasion the other day to exchange ideas with a friend builder, par excellent, who has made and sold over 200 guns. Some how we got on the issue of the time spent & cost of gathering the necessary giblets to make a rifle. He told me he has just accepted a commission which will cost HIM over $1300 for everything before he sets a chisel to wood. That got me to thinking about my summer project, so I totaled up everything I have so far spent on parts and pieces to build, what will be a high-end FS Hawken. So far I've spent $1250 on items for this piece. This doesn't count the stuff I will be making by hand like RR thimbles, patch box frame, front sight, special decorative inlay's, etc., etc., nor does it begin to cover the extra costs I will spend for the special metal engraving I'd like to see. Well, the pleasure I get from doing the job is worth it, and it keeps me off the streets and out of the bar's.

We grow too soon old and too late smart

Restoring classic autos is much the same; you can put 40 grand into a nice restoration, and the price you get if you sell it would be around 27 grand, for instance. Varies according to what it is, but the same accounting applies.

 

[springfield art]

Years ago , I figured out that , scratch building m/l guns didn't pay well enough to make a living. But I wanted to create a few of the guns using Shumways' books for ideas. What broke my heart , was back in 1970 , I made a friend ,Bob Kern , that ran a real M/l shop in Ligonier, Pa.. He was an old time original m/l dealer. That morning , on my way to work, I walked into his shop , and on the counter , lay an original Pannabecker longrifle , and it was for sale. Bob said , the guy that owned it , had sold it to him twice already , and Bob said it was bad luck for him to buy the rifle , a third time. However Bob said if I wanted it , he would get the gun for me for $200 , cash. I was just building a new house , and $200 , was almost two payments for me. To say I was disappointed , would be an understatement. But , coming from a poor upbringing , I knew, if I wanted something bad enough , just figure it out , and make it. Muzzleloading , became a major hobby, Finding parts dealers ,and other builders I found to be , a fun experience , as well. Oddly, I always disliked the stressful profession , I had taken up, but the money was good enough. Muzzleloading , became the thing that kept me sane, so I embraced all aspects of the sport ,and building m/l guns. As my building skills matured , I could have any original I could build. It's been fun...............oldwood

I like your comments! Thanks

 

[Piquant]

I know how you can make a small fortune building muzzlerloaders. Start off with a large fortune.

 

[nhmoose]

I held in my LLC an 07 Manufactures ffl in the company I had after retiring from a big city Fire dept. When I sold out to the partner and his son I took a 20K+ loss on my investment.

We did well I thought till then Seems all I worked I made $5.50 an hour for my time running and taking care of the business.

First #1 rule No partners as one will be a thief.

Second #2 rule Never have a father and thief son as partners.

Third rule #3 Never enter a business you love as a hobby.

Fourth and final rule #4 Trust freaking no one, partners, relatives and workers who are there to set you up for the federal agents to get rid of drug charges.

Bitter you betcha!

 

[Uncle Miltie]

When I hear people complain of the cost of a custom built muzzleloader I remember an article by I think Mark Baker. It was about Daniel Boone and his party being captured by the Indians. They listed the firearms they lost and put a price on each. Mark converted into todays money. I don't remember the exact average price of them, but I do know that what we pay for muzzleloaders today is cheap compared to what they cost in the 18th century.

They cost almost a years' income for a working man.

 

[Buckskinn]

You should count yourself lucky to be able to charge anything for doing something you love to do, not many can. And if it's not enough, don't do it.

 

[user 48702]

A skilled craftsman worth his salt should look around at what their plumber, auto mechanic, and electrician charges, which is on average $70 to $80 per hour, plus parts. A machine shop averages $100 per hour for general machine work with a one hour minimum. If your in it as a business and a skilled professional, don't sell yourself short. If your building for a hobby you can charge anything you want and rest upon the enjoyment and satisfaction in your craft. I have seen too many over the years who don't know how to set prices and under value their work, then after a while they can't understand why they're not making a living. Back in the mid 1980s, I learned saddle and holster making from an old timer, D.W. Smith, in Mira Loma, CA, who once told me "If you ever meet a quality saddlemaker who is making good money, I'll show you a saddlemaker who's wife has a good paying job with benefits". He also said "Don't buy a saddle from a bootmaker, nor a pair of boots from a saddlemaker, if you do you'll be hurting at both ends".

 

[Quicksilver]

Knowledge and education are expensive no matter the trade. I seem to have a hard time sticking with one trade, but instead like the learning part of the trades the most. So I guess the learning has been a large cost of doing business for me.

 

[PathfinderNC]

They cost almost a years' income for a working man.

What kind of “working man”?
Some make/made tons more than others.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Was not speaking of present times....

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I’ve had my own “ business” for several years now, Tax ID number and all. Until two years ago all my work was building musical instruments, probably 80% were custom-order builds.
Last year I began building flintlock rifles and powder horns have been wonderfully happy doing it.
At this point in my life and career I am finally able to say NO to any more commissions except for a rare exception which is done as a favor.
I have noticed that making the musical instruments there are far fewer building costs (and less shipping costs). I made nice profits.
I love doing the rifles and horns a lot and will continue as long as I am able to, even without realizing as much gain. (The musical instruments are itching to get back into production, and will do so in a while as well)
It’s love of what you are doing that keeps people like this going. Hopefully it shows.

You are a creator of magical stuff !

 

[oldwood]

Back in the day , guns were bought with the money used in the day. Anlmal pelts. , deer hides ,specifically. If a gun costs $12 , that translated to 12 Buck hides. Can't remember where I read this.

 

[mikesto44]

First I'm no pro gun builder. Built several guns because I just was to stubborn to pay someone the big bucks for something I figured I could do.
But how someone could actually make a living at it full time has got to be hard, real hard.
Recently I made my first consignment gun and it was a style I had not built before. Learned invaluable lesson to not do it again...!! The constant is it done yet phone calls, I guess I want this done instead... One and done. All other guns I make will be what I want to build. If you want it fine, if not fine too..!
Really don't know how you could make a real living at it on your own. Now day's people charge $65 an hour just to do lawn care. Try charging that for gun building......LOL

 

[SOLANCO]

First I'm no pro gun builder. Built several guns because I just was to stubborn to pay someone the big bucks for something I figured I could do.
But how someone could actually make a living at it full time has got to be hard, real hard.
Recently I made my first consignment gun and it was a style I had not built before. Learned invaluable lesson to not do it again...!! The constant is it done yet phone calls, I guess I want this done instead... One and done. All other guns I make will be what I want to build. If you want it fine, if not fine too..!
Really don't know how you could make a real living at it on your own. Now day's people charge $65 an hour just to do lawn care. Try charging that for gun building......LOL

If you have never owned or managed a business you may not appreciate all the costs and efforts involved. You have all the costs associated with a home or apartment plus regulatory costs, material costs, equipment purchase and maintenance, shipping both inbound and outbound, accountant, lawyer, all the insurance your accountant and lawyer tell you that you need, payroll if you have employees, motor vehicle, licenses, taxes. It just goes on and on and I haven't even touched on advertising/sales/marketing.
Then there is time. Your own business will command first claim on your time. The Lord only allotted you so much of it, and, like money, the less you have left the faster it goes.

 

[mushka]

With having all the requirements met for opening a business I don't see how anyone can do it. Too much government involved. Taxes, insurance, licensing. All expensive.

 

[Red Dirt Dave]

"Be your own boss!" they said.
"It'll be fun!" they said.
"You'll make lots of money!" they said.
"That costs too much!" they said.

 

[springfield art]

There are fellows making guns full time so there must be something to it; but self-employment has many pitfalls; what if you get sick? Taxes, itchy customers, the "stigma" of being self-employed with no pension or benefits, etc., etc. Liability, all that mushka said and more!

 

[springfield art]

Some localities tax you for having a "business" in your home; it can even be verboten in some localities, guess that's why so many seem to have "Cabin" in their locations! We should all be grateful to the dedicated craftsmen and business people that keep us supplied with our swag!

 

[Jim K]

I wish all my taxidermy customers could read this thread!!!