Hi All, very new to BP guns. I am very interested in getting a Hawken kit from Cabelas. I think these are .50 cal. Are these good for hunting deer? I am very new to this also. Are the kit rifles as good as the fully assembled ones? Thanks, Ron.
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Hawken and deer hunting?
- Thread starter cosmo7
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jtmattison
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.50 cal is a great deer caliber. As for the kit vs. assembled rifle, it can only be as good as you build it. As a total beginner I would go with the assembled rifle and build another later after you're familiar with BP weapons.
HD
HD
Rogue River
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The .50 cal. is a very good caliber for deer. As far as the kit go's if you are handy working with wood and metal it most likely won't be to bad of a project. My first rifle was a kit that I put together and it was fun doing and I still have it. It's sorta like your first-born. The kits are mainly assemble and fit! If you have doubt's buy one that finished and save for a kit to play with in your spare time!
ohio ramrod
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The kits are as good as the person assembling them. Just be aware some companies have different warranties on kits. 50 caliber is probably the most popular caliber for deer. I myself use a 45 and find it satisfactory.
Little Wattsy
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cosmo7 said:
To awnser the question: IF you like to build/work with wood the kits are fun..IF you really just want to hunt Id just get the completed gun. I also would REALLY look at the .54 I personally prefer it as an all around. And just :2 for the money I would look at a Lyman Great Plains...To date I think that they are the mostest accurate off the shelf gun in that price range.....
smokehouseman
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Buy a used gun and try it out before you get a kit and bigger's better, go with a .58 caliber and you'll never look back.
The Cabelas Hawken is made by Investarm. The same company that makes the fine Lyman guns. They're a very good gun for the money. I love mine.
Since the price of the kit is so close to the price of the complete rifle, you don't really save anything by building one. By the time you buy any tools that you might be lacking, wood finish, metal finish, etc., you've probably spent more. The kits are mostly for those who enjoy customizing the gun to be the way that they want it. It's why I built mine. If you haven't built one before, I'd suggest just buying the complete rifle and enjoy shooting it. You can always build a kit later on.
As for caliber, I chose .54. I've always preferred it over .50 because of the added versatility. You might consider it too, especially if you might end up hunting elk some day. I'm sure a lot of folks take them just fine with a .50, but the .54 just gives you a little bit more.
Since the price of the kit is so close to the price of the complete rifle, you don't really save anything by building one. By the time you buy any tools that you might be lacking, wood finish, metal finish, etc., you've probably spent more. The kits are mostly for those who enjoy customizing the gun to be the way that they want it. It's why I built mine. If you haven't built one before, I'd suggest just buying the complete rifle and enjoy shooting it. You can always build a kit later on.
As for caliber, I chose .54. I've always preferred it over .50 because of the added versatility. You might consider it too, especially if you might end up hunting elk some day. I'm sure a lot of folks take them just fine with a .50, but the .54 just gives you a little bit more.
I have a Hawken .50 cal and I'm not sure how to load it for deer. What do you guys use? I have some 275 grain Maxi Balls and pydrex7. Do I need to put a wad on top of the powder under the Mini-ball. Also the Maxi ball is a really tight fit. Is this ok? I just want to get an idea of what kind of combos people are using for there traditional.
ratpatrol
All who wander are not lost.
I too had the same concerns between KIT and complete rifle.
I may have gone overboard but I wanted as historically correct as possible w/o buying a custom made rifle...Pedersoli Missouri Hawken in .50. I debated long and hard between the .54 and .50 and chose .50 simply for it being a some what standard round.
I may have gone overboard but I wanted as historically correct as possible w/o buying a custom made rifle...Pedersoli Missouri Hawken in .50. I debated long and hard between the .54 and .50 and chose .50 simply for it being a some what standard round.
"I have a Hawken .50 cal and I'm not sure how to load it for deer. What do you guys use?"
Most use a round ball if hunting with traditional gear is the goal, there are a lot of modern bullets folks use but that kind of shaves a good part of the traditional part of the whole experience off as you basicaly have the same thing as a 50/100 cartridge gun. the .50 with ball is plenty for any deer hunting one might do. many try to use a lot of angles to argue the modern bullets into the realm of the traditional, but a bit of thought and common sense will shed the light on the facts on that issue.
Most use a round ball if hunting with traditional gear is the goal, there are a lot of modern bullets folks use but that kind of shaves a good part of the traditional part of the whole experience off as you basicaly have the same thing as a 50/100 cartridge gun. the .50 with ball is plenty for any deer hunting one might do. many try to use a lot of angles to argue the modern bullets into the realm of the traditional, but a bit of thought and common sense will shed the light on the facts on that issue.
Because you said you already have some maxi-balls I won't dwell on the merits of the patched roundball by pointing out that they cost a lot less and out to the limits of traditional iron sights they work just as well.
That said, you should be able to use any powder load between 70 and 100 grains of powder.
I noted that you said you had "Pyrodex 7" and because Pyrodex comes in "P", "RS" and "Select" I will assume you are using Hodgdons 777.
777 powder is measured just like Pyrodex or black powder, by using a volumetric powder measure.
The difference is that 777 is more powerful than Pyrodex or black powder and Hodgdon recommends reducing the powder load by 15 percent if you are using it.
Most production muzzleloaders are limited to 120 grains of real black powder. That amount minus the 15 percent lowers the 777 load to 102 grains.
That said, muzzleloaders are sometimes fussy. They like one or two powder loads and don't like the others. The trick is to find out which one they like.
It's just my opinion but I'm betting that a powder load of around 75-80 grains gives you the best accuracy and is more than enough for any deer in North America.
The tight fit of the maxi-ball is normal.
Because these are not patched they must be a snug fit when they are rammed to allow them to expand and grab the rifling when they are fired.
Some have found that the use of a wad between the powder and the bullet improves accuracy but the bullets were designed to be used without wads so it's up to you whether you spend the extra money to buy and load them.
Accuracy is the most important thing with a muzzleloader so you need to go out and fire as many shots as you can afford to find out what load your gun likes and to dial in the sight settings. Most sight in at about 70 yards because that will allow shots from 50-110 yards without making any special allowances for bullet/ball drop.
Have fun.
That said, you should be able to use any powder load between 70 and 100 grains of powder.
I noted that you said you had "Pyrodex 7" and because Pyrodex comes in "P", "RS" and "Select" I will assume you are using Hodgdons 777.
777 powder is measured just like Pyrodex or black powder, by using a volumetric powder measure.
The difference is that 777 is more powerful than Pyrodex or black powder and Hodgdon recommends reducing the powder load by 15 percent if you are using it.
Most production muzzleloaders are limited to 120 grains of real black powder. That amount minus the 15 percent lowers the 777 load to 102 grains.
That said, muzzleloaders are sometimes fussy. They like one or two powder loads and don't like the others. The trick is to find out which one they like.
It's just my opinion but I'm betting that a powder load of around 75-80 grains gives you the best accuracy and is more than enough for any deer in North America.
The tight fit of the maxi-ball is normal.
Because these are not patched they must be a snug fit when they are rammed to allow them to expand and grab the rifling when they are fired.
Some have found that the use of a wad between the powder and the bullet improves accuracy but the bullets were designed to be used without wads so it's up to you whether you spend the extra money to buy and load them.
Accuracy is the most important thing with a muzzleloader so you need to go out and fire as many shots as you can afford to find out what load your gun likes and to dial in the sight settings. Most sight in at about 70 yards because that will allow shots from 50-110 yards without making any special allowances for bullet/ball drop.
Have fun.
cowpoke1955
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I agree with Wattsy. Check out the Lyman GPRs at DNR Sports: http://www.dnrsports.com/acatalog/D___R_Catalog_Lyman_Muzzleloaders_649.html . Lyman and Cabela's are both made by Investarms of Italy. The Cabela's kit is in .50 caliber only, where the GPR kits are in .50 and .54, for only a few dollars more. The GPR is a better looking rifle and has a 1 in 60" twist barrel for round balls. With a .54 caliber ball, there is no need for a .50 conical. I have two .54 GPRs, one cap and one flint. Both are accurate out to 100 yards with round balls. Just my 2 cents.
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