Help a newbie with misfirng caps

[Zonie]

Ferret Master
If you have an electric drill and a flat metal cutting file you can file the cone diameter down to fit the #11 caps.

I recommend chucking on the outside diemeter of the nipple rather than the threads because chucking on the threads can damage them.

Anyway, chuck the nipple in the electric drill. If it is a variable speed drill, run it at a slow speed and place the file onto the cone on the nipple keeping the same angle that the nipple came with.
With the drill held in your left hand and pointed to your right, push the file away from you on the nipple to remove the material.

Check the fit of the percussion cap often. Just removing a little bit of the nipple cone diameter will make a lot of difference in how far the cap goes down on it.

Ideally, the cap should slide down over the cone and come to rest on the priming compound with very little force and at the same time it should fit snugly on the cone.

 

[Ferret Master]

The short nipple from TOW for the TC works fine. I'm going to try to get GM to send the correct nipple as well.
Ferret Master

 

[Stony Broke]

When loading at a bench, like at club matches, I keep a rubber hammer in my shooting box to start the PRB. Just a minor tap and they are started into the rifling and go a lot easier from there. Generally when it takes two strikes to set off a cap, it is a matter of the fit on the nipple. I think if you would try another brand it might solve your problem. I normally use CCI's, but others would probably work well too.

 

[THBailey]

When placing the cap on the nipple, be sure it’s fully seated. You can achieve this by slowly and firmly putting pressure down on the cap using the spur of the hammer and thumb pressure. Then recock and fire! See if those two suggestions help you out my friend?

Before getting too creative try Cowboys suggestion first. After I load and cap, with the barrel pointed safely of course, I gently set the hammer on the cap and then quite firmly push on the back of the hammer spur. I suspect with the two strike to go off your first hammer drop is actually seating the cap. I had the same problem off and on with several guns but since I started using the hammer push technique I have not had a single non-fire.

 

[Grenadier1758]

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I was using Winchester #11 percusion caps from a brand new order. As I mentioned, I tried both the original and a replacement TC Hawken nipple. I also tried to help 'seat' the cap by de-cocking the hammer on top of the cap and pushing on it a bit.

What am I dorking up?

---

As we can see from the original post, Semper Smokey was doing the first level troubleshooting practices and not really "dorking" it up. There is some sort of hardware issue

1. He replaced the nipple. Still it took two hammer falls to fire the cap.
2. He lowered the hammer and pushed on the cap. Still it took two hammer falls to fire the cap.

What was left that was common to both failure to fire on the first hammer fall was the cap. Many of us have suggested that he get some different caps then the Winchester #11 caps he was using. Because of where he lives, he had to order far more caps than one would normally order and he had a right to expect these caps to function without a failure to fire on the first hammer fall. Since a different brand of caps is not really the solution for his problem and these caps were firing on the second hammer fall, I recommend that the nipple be filed down to better fit the cap. Quite a few of us have provided detailed instructions on how to take a little bit off the nipple cone and get the cap to properly fit.

We haven't heard yet that he has slimmed down the nipple cone and what was the result of the modification to the nipple.

So, Semper Smokey, are you getting your gun to fire reliably?

 

[Semper_Smokey]

As we can see from the original post, Semper Smokey was doing the first level troubleshooting practices and not really "dorking" it up. There is some sort of hardware issue

1. He replaced the nipple. Still it took two hammer falls to fire the cap.
2. He lowered the hammer and pushed on the cap. Still it took two hammer falls to fire the cap.

What was left that was common to both failure to fire on the first hammer fall was the cap. Many of us have suggested that he get some different caps then the Winchester #11 caps he was using. Because of where he lives, he had to order far more caps than one would normally order and he had a right to expect these caps to function without a failure to fire on the first hammer fall. Since a different brand of caps is not really the solution for his problem and these caps were firing on the second hammer fall, I recommend that the nipple be filed down to better fit the cap. Quite a few of us have provided detailed instructions on how to take a little bit off the nipple cone and get the cap to properly fit.

We haven't heard yet that he has slimmed down the nipple cone and what was the result of the modification to the nipple.

So, Semper Smokey, are you getting your gun to fire reliably?

Hi Grenadier - thanks for summarizing! Afraid I've been (and will be) traveling for work for a while so haven't had much time to experiment.

I did do a thorough cleaning of the hammer cusp, took the assembly apart, cleaned and reassembled with white lithium. I tried to be sneaky and snapped off a cap in the backyard (sure there neighbors loved that...). And it worked!!

But being of the paranoid persuasion, I tried a second cap and an back to the original issue.

I'm hoping to bring back some of my tools from London, and hopefully I'll be able to try filing down the nipple next!

 

[Semper_Smokey]

Hi all,

Terribly sorry for the long suspense, but with travel and the current craze it's taken a while to get back out to the range!

But great news! Filing down the nipple did the trick! I used a spare nipple I had bought, just in case, and filed it down as you recommended. Like a charm - many, many thanks!

As far as bashing my hand - I also sorted that. Or rather, the 16oz rubber mallet I bought sorted it... Still feels like a little overkill, but hey, at least I don't have to injure myself to go make smoke!

Quick question on the short starter: I wonder if it's more difficult to load because of how long the 'short' starter end is? I'm using this cheap job I got from muzzle-loaders.com (https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/muzzle-loaders-bullet-starter-wooden-loading-jags-mz1500.html). The shortest end, if used, would push the ball too far into the muzzel for cutting the patch. So instead, I follow Dutche's advice, and use just the rounded ball part of the starter.

What this means is I end up balancing the ticking material across the muzzel, the ball on top of that with sprue up, then the rounded part of the starter on top AND then bash that with the mallet. It's a tad precarious.

I just wonder if a short starter with a... shorter short starter like this (https://www.amazon.com/Traditions-Performance-Firearms-Muzzleloader-Starter/dp/B003WHI9X8) would be easier, since I could use the brass adapter directly and not the rounded wooden ball.

Anywho - still ended up with a workable way to go enjoy this new found love! Thanks all for the great advice!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Good Grief! That starter from Muzzleloaders.com has way too long of ball starter (the short end) . As Dutch says, you just want the short nub to get the ball into the barrel so you can cut the patch. The Traditions starter you found on Amazon has a proper starting nub. It is concave so it will round off the sprue to remove that flat spot. I use a small matching caliber dimensioned jag and bore guide on my similar short starter.

 

[Howard Pippin]

Hi all,

Terribly sorry for the long suspense, but with travel and the current craze it's taken a while to get back out to the range!

But great news! Filing down the nipple did the trick! I used a spare nipple I had bought, just in case, and filed it down as you recommended. Like a charm - many, many thanks!

As far as bashing my hand - I also sorted that. Or rather, the 16oz rubber mallet I bought sorted it... Still feels like a little overkill, but hey, at least I don't have to injure myself to go make smoke!

Quick question on the short starter: I wonder if it's more difficult to load because of how long the 'short' starter end is? I'm using this cheap job I got from muzzle-loaders.com (https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/muzzle-loaders-bullet-starter-wooden-loading-jags-mz1500.html). The shortest end, if used, would push the ball too far into the muzzel for cutting the patch. So instead, I follow Dutche's advice, and use just the rounded ball part of the starter.

What this means is I end up balancing the ticking material across the muzzel, the ball on top of that with sprue up, then the rounded part of the starter on top AND then bash that with the mallet. It's a tad precarious.

I just wonder if a short starter with a... shorter short starter like this (https://www.amazon.com/Traditions-Performance-Firearms-Muzzleloader-Starter/dp/B003WHI9X8) would be easier, since I could use the brass adapter directly and not the rounded wooden ball.

Anywho - still ended up with a workable way to go enjoy this new found love! Thanks all for the great advice!

Hi there "Semper_Smokey. I think you can eliminate the round ball, and just use a rubber hammer, that's what I do just, set it on there on the patch and whack it with your rubber hammer and it will go down flush. Doesn't seem to hurt the round ball or the barrel. Fact is my rubber hammer is only about a half pound or so, is not a very big one, And it works real good.
Squint

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

My daughters have a real challenge getting a ball started. So I just cut an old hickory maul handle into 6-inch lengths and smoothed off the ends. They use these as mallets. You don't need to give it a real hard whack, just a series of whacks will get it started.

 

[flntlokr]

Just their labeling - though wanted to try a thicker patch, as once started, they're quite easy to ram home. Just got to get them in!

If you are using one of those short starters with a ball; lose the ball! Get a small piece of wood and make a mallet head about the width of your hand. (I have made these from chunks of antler, but the one I have had for 35 years is of oak) Transfer all of the metal parts of the ball handle to the mallet, and awaaay we go! Much easier on the hand, and the mallet comes in handy for lots of stuff. Your patched ball doesn't need to be any tighter than can be comfortably rammed with a wooden rod. I used to use a .495 ball with a .013 cotton patch in a GM or TC barrel.