Help Convert TC Renegade Perc. to Flint

[messer454]

Need some help guys. I am pretty new here but have been reading posts for awhile. I would like to convert a Renegade from percussion to flint. As I see it I need...
1.a new breech plug-looks like I can get one from Track of Wolf
2. A lock

My main question is is there a place to get a less than $100 lock, less than $80 would even be better? I know you get what you pay for but I am just getting into flinting (this is second project) and what I want is a copy of the TC lock. Yes it can be a foreign import so long as it is comparable to factory TC in quality. For instance would a Lyman fit? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Did I leave anything out for my conversion?

 

[bob1961]

L&R makes a lock to replace the T/C lock....track has them under the lock section but the bad news is there 130.00....might try T/C's website or ebay :v .............bob

L&R lock....................

 

[Rick Davis]

It might be worthwhile to buy a pre-made barrel set up the way you want it. By the time you've paid for the breechplug and the tool to spin it, you're not far from another barrel. Also, when I did this, each time the plug was removed & reinstalled, it seated a little deeper during tightening. On a round barrel this wouldn't be a big deal, but this was a TC octagonal barrel.

Plus, a replacement barrel wouldn't make a one-way trip. I have a Renegade percussion with two barrels. I can swap back & forth between 50 cal and 54 cal just by pulling the wedge and plopping the desired barrel in. A TC breechplug tool is about $40-$50, my extra green mountain barrel was $75.

 

[roundball]

"...Yes it can be a foreign import so long as it is comparable to factory TC in quality..."

That might be a contradiction in terms.

I also agree that rebreeching the barrel would cost about as much as just buying a replacement barrel...by the time you buy a plug, pay a gunsmith to replace it, then pay to have the breech & barrel reblued to match, the shipping both ways, possibly to 2 different locations...whew.

One alternative that I've used myself, is to just sell the percussion lock and barrel...then put a little more with the proceeds from that and buy a new Flint barrel & lock...have yourself a new muzzleloader for not a whole lot of extra money

 

[messer454]

Thanks guys. It looks like it might be a little harder than I thought. I am still looking into it.

 

[messer454]

Parameters have changed a little gentlemen. I just won a Renegade stock and flint lock off ebay.........but I didn't win the barrel. What a bummer.

PA rifleman- Where do you get a Green Mountain barrel for $75? Everything I'm looking at is over $100 some closer to $150 after shipping if you include the breechplug. Unlike your home state probably, I have never seen a flintlock for sale in a gun store here in Ohio. It is catalogue or internet for me.

I am still a little confused on the whole converting the breech business in case I want to do it. Screw out old breech, screw in track of wolf's TC breech, drill hole and tap for touch hole liner? What is left to make it function?

Roundball- won't be shipping anywhere, have an awesome local gunsmith if I need him. I would probably either try bluing myself or more likely brown barrel, not send to have reblued.

Not sure what you guys are talking about concerning "spinning" breech. Track of wolf catalogue says very little final fitting is required. Am I missing something?

I appreciate your knowledge thanks for the help.

 

[Rick Davis]

...
PA rifleman- Where do you get a Green Mountain barrel for $75?

Ebay, and patience. If you can't wait, there's a flint barrel in 50 on ebay right here .

Click here to perform a quick check on ebay for locks.

It is catalogue or internet for me.

Ditto, most of the real gun shops are in Lancaster County or further west. I'm closer to Philadelphia, too close to preppy sheltered/non-shooting/non-critical-thinking types, or in target-rich environs depending on how one looks at it. :hmm:

I am still a little confused on the whole converting the breech business in case I want to do it. Screw out old breech, screw in track of wolf's TC breech,...

I looked into this years ago. I recall the vent hole is in the breechplug, as is the nipple flange. Changing the breechplug also changes the technology. Unfortunately, it isn't as easy as it looks. First, they're tightened under a lot of torque. I understand the breechplug wrench is no longer in production, so you'll need to scour the secondary market to find one.


These wrenches can cost upwards of $40 or more depending on market conditions, a stiff hit when you consider that you'll only use it once or twice. A lot of folks lacking the correct breechplug wrench used a pipe wrench. That's how all those TCs got those deep gouges on the breech we see on internet auctions. Another detail is the size-TC made several barrel sizes, 13/16", 15/16" and 1" across the flats. Make sure the breechplug is the correct size. The thread size is the same for both, but the flats will be off. As the threads wear, the final resting position or angle of the breechplug will change. After a few tightenings, it will have enough angular misalignment that the breechplug may not engage the tang anymore. When this happens, it either needs to have a little bit machined off the barrel breech or the mating surface of the breechplug. Unless you have a bed lathe in your garage, you'll need the services of a machine shop to correct this.

Not sure what you guys are talking about concerning "spinning" breech.

Vernacular (i.e., "slang") for the process of unscrewing and reinstalling the breechplug. See comments above. Sounds much easier than it is, and it really wasn't meant to a be a user-performed operation, according to the last TC tech I spoke with. I didn't think to ask why they sold breechplug wrenches, I suspect it was intended for gunsmiths and perhaps last-ditch stuck ball removal.

Hopefully by now the merits of getting another barrel are becoming apparent. Plus, as another poster mentioned, you can sell your old barrel to help offset the cost of the conversion. That was probably why someone sold me an unfired 50 cal barrel for my Renegade, with a cleaning rod. I was a little off price-wise. It wasn't $75, it was $76.66. Unfortunately it's also percussion. Keep an eye out, here's a handy ebay search that brings up just TC Hawken & Renegade barrels, including common mispellings. Save it under favorite searches with email notifications, that way it'll come to you in time.

PA Rifleman = Rick Davis in PA

 

[messer454]

PA Rifleman- You have been an incredible help. New or used barrel it is. I got a lesson in ebay to boot! I think I will hold out for a .54 though. Thanks.

 

[renovato]

Messer, hang in there on Ebay. I see T/C barrels go through there almost constantly. I'm sure you'll be able to pick one up soon. I just bought a T/C lock after losing bids on about a dozen of them. Took me a couple weeks, if that.

 

[410-er]

Might also keep an eye on
[url] www.gunbroker.com[/url][url] www.gunsamerica.com[/url][url] www.auctionarms.com[/url]

 

[Rick Davis]

PA Rifleman- ... New or used barrel it is. ...

Here are simulated pipe wrench marks-the result of inexperience and using the wrong tool:



One additional pointer-if you don't have a lot of experience on ebay, there are a lot of tricks sellers use to pass off mediocre stuff. It ranges from slightly out of fucus or poorly lighted pictures, not answering questions, no provenance claims to outright fraud & lying. Don't let this discourage you as most of the sellers are as honest as you & I. Out of the hundreds of transactions, I only had one that was problematic and I got it within $5 of settled. And check feedback, try[url] http://toolhaus.org/[/url] to save time filtering through feedback and get to business. Just be sure to ask questions if for no other reason to make contact with the seller, and get an idea what how their disposition's oriented (Prompt reply? Friendly? Evasive answers?). And do your homework on what you want, if for no other reason to assess it's fair price.

Look carefully at the pictures. If you can't see the rifling, ask for a pic. If you don't get a sharp, clear picture or satisfactory reply - pass on the auction. Be choosy. VERY choosy. This is where discrimination can be your friend.

To further tantalize, here are a few glimpses what a little over $200 and patience can yield:





Gun came from gunbroker, barrel & wedgepuller (not shown) came from eBay.

Note: no tools, no breechplug swapping, no wrench marks, no torches. I even got the correct wedge-puller :grin:

Enjoy.

 

[todg]

How do the L&R locks compare to the T/C originals? I see there's no coil spring.

 

[todg]

I had to laugh about ebay. You can't sell a wjhole gun on ebay, but apparently you can take it apart and sell it. LOL. Lock, Stock and barrel all in ajacent auctions.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

I had to laugh about ebay. You can't sell a wjhole gun on ebay, but apparently you can take it apart and sell it. LOL. Lock, Stock and barrel all in ajacent auctions.

Yup, that's how they do it. Problem comes if someone else outbids you on either the stock or the barrel. Then you could end up with half a gun :shocked2: :rotf: :rotf:

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

I had to laugh about ebay. You can't sell a wjhole gun on ebay, but apparently you can take it apart and sell it. LOL. Lock, Stock and barrel all in ajacent auctions.

Yup, that's how they do it. Problem comes if someone else outbids you on either the stock or the barrel. Then you could end up with half a gun :shocked2: :rotf: :rotf:

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

On a serious note, something that does bother me about the way thinsg are stripped down and parted out...for example, TC Hawkens from the 70's, 80's, and early 90's had quite a lot of variation in the stock dimensions over those years, and each different set of stock dimensions had correspondingly different dimension buttplates & nosecaps.

Most sellers aren't knowledgeable enough to know not to separate those components, and many of the new buyers don't know that they can't just buy an 80's stock and order a buttplate from TC to fit it...those particular dimension parts are long gone.

I sent Emails to a couple of sellers explaining and suggesting that they keep the buttplates and nose caps together with the stock they're fitted to and in each case got very rude replies from the sellers...

 

[messer454]

I was wondering about that Roundball. My stock has all the furniture, I just have to find a barrel now.