Help identifying this half stock plains Hawkins style 60cal?

[dpavelock]

Maker located at bottom of barrel on underside after removing it from stock that’s where it was. Length I though I said 30 1/4in barrel - stock in great shape and barrel good too needs a good cleaning side lock plate good and hammer / trigger work. From what I could tell looking into barrel bore seemed clean. I wasn’t quite sure how to remove the nipple / plug

Lastly. This is posted on a Not for Sale threat as I was looking to get info. At some point I will list for sale in the right way

 

[bpd303]

We still need some full length pictures to try and say what school it was made after. I sorta agree with who ever said looks like an Ohio rifle.
My grandfather taught me to shoot a flintlock with his original Ohio Vincent 36 caliber and from what I remember of how his looked, yours seem to have some of the same characteristics. However the last time I saw his rifle was some 70 years ago so my memory may be a little off.

 

[dpavelock]

We still need some full length pictures to try and say what school it was made after. I sorta agree with who ever said looks like an Ohio rifle.
My grandfather taught me to shoot a flintlock with his original Ohio Vincent 36 caliber and from what I remember of how his looked, yours seem to have some of the same characteristics. However the last time I saw his rifle was some 70 years ago so my memory may be a little off.

 

[springfield art]

I don't think it is right to condemn someone for making a low ball offer. I was told many years ago by a mentor that there is 3 prices for everything. There is the price you want to pay for the item. Then there is the price I want to get for the item. Then there is the price that we decide you will pay for it. I personally have a fourth price, The I don't really want to sell it price.

I bought my home 10 years ago. It was an estate sale that had been on the market for a year so the real estate agent suggested making a low ball offer to see if they would come down on the price, well they took the offer. I don't feel guilty about that because I was prepared to pay a lot more than I did. If you have someone who has made an offer then make a counter offer and see how much they really want the rifle.

Well stated. Thanks.

 

[bpd303]

When I said a full length picture, I meant the complete gun in one picture. Sorry but I'm not good at trying to get the whole picture from the pictures already posted. Trying to visualize what the gun looks like is sort of piecing a jig saw puzzle together and I am terrible at that.

 

[Anancande]

It sounds like you’ve got an interesting piece on your hands! I had a similar situation with an old rifle I found, and getting a pro to look at it really helped. I reached out to a local antique dealer who specializes in firearms, and they were able to give me a lot of info.

 

[dpavelock]

When I said a full length picture, I meant the complete gun in one picture. Sorry but I'm not good at trying to get the whole picture from the pictures already posted. Trying to visualize what the gun looks like is sort of piecing a jig saw puzzle together and I am terrible at that.

Here are two

 

[bpd303]

You're not getting what I and I'm sure others would need to help with the identification. Here is an example of what would help. It shows the drop in the stock in relationship with the barrel and the butt-muzzle all in one shot.

 

[dpavelock]

It sounds like you’ve got an interesting piece on your hands! I had a similar situation with an old rifle I found, and getting a pro to look at it really helped. I reached out to a local antique dealer who specializes in firearms, and they were able to give me a lot of info.

Yea. Maybe I got to find a local pro but everyone still has been extremely helpful

You're not getting what I and I'm sure others would need to help with the identification. Here is an example of what would help. It shows the drop in the stock in relationship with the barrel and the butt-muzzle all in one shot.

View attachment 336902
View attachment 336903

 

[dpavelock]

Yea. Maybe I got to find a local pro but everyone still has been extremely helpful

 

[dpavelock]

Yea. Maybe I got to find a local pro but everyone still has been extremely helpful

Here you go

 

[dpavelock]

Yea. Maybe I got to find a local pro but everyone still has been extremely helpful

You're not getting what I and I'm sure others would need to help with the identification. Here is an example of what would help. It shows the drop in the stock in relationship with the barrel and the butt-muzzle all in one shot.

View attachment 336902
View attachment 336903

 

[bpd303]

Perfect, I'm reasonably sure it is an Ohio Vincent rifle. The Vincent brothers produced them from 1840 through 1860. Yours has the target sights that someone added who knows when. Here is a thread on them with some good pictures.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/vincent-rifles.118691/

 

[dpavelock]

Thanks so m

Perfect, I'm reasonably sure it is an Ohio Vincent rifle. The Vincent brothers produced them from 1840 through 1860. Yours has the target sights that someone added who knows when. Here is a thread on them with some good pictures.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/vincent-rifles.118691

Thanks so much for your time. I’ll try to research more. Eventually I want to find this a good home to a collector and if you have an idea of a range regarding value I would appreciate it

 

[Thagomizer]

Back on page 2 the manufacturer was established.
Now all of a sudden it's a Vincent?

 

[Conquerordie]

Muzzy and Co were out of Massachusetts I believe. But they also just sold barrels so maybe the rifle wasn't manufactured by them, just used a quality barrel by them.

 

[bpd303]

Muzzy and Co were out of Massachusetts I believe. But they also just sold barrels so maybe the rifle wasn't manufactured by them, just used a quality barrel by them.

That is what I thought also. The only thing on page 2 was to establish the maker of the barrel. It is interesting that the Vincent Brothers made guns from 1840-1860, the same time period Muzzy & Co was making barrels. I think the ACW put a stop to both making civilian arms. I'm researching to see if both may have converted to making military arms for the war. I haven't found anything past 1860 for either.

 

[Rancocas]

Well, IMO, it is an "Ohio style" target rifle, but who actually made it is still up in the air. There were plenty of gunsmiths besides the Vincent's who made this style. Muzzy apparently made the barrel, but did they also make the gun? Who knows?
I have an original "Ohio rifle" that was made by "Wareham", near Akron, OH. in the 1850's. Mine is a "buggy rifle" of small caliber (.32), not a target rifle, but the lines of the stock are basically the same.

 

[bpd303]

I'm strictly going by memory, an old one at that. My grandfather had an original Ohio Vincent that he taught me to shoot with. Although it was a full stock 36 cal flintlock, what I remembered about it is it looked a lot like this gun. I wish I had a picture of it but alas any pictures would have been long gone in some albums my mom had.

While doing research on Muzzy & Co, I found out There was a maker that made target rifles that used their barrels named Hitchcock Muzzy & Co but all the barrels were stamped as such.

 

[Conquerordie]

Google the above maker, and you can see a variety of their rifles. New England target rifles have their own style, as do Ohio Rifles. It doesn't scream New England target gun. The lock, breech, furniture all look simpler than you'd see on a New England gun. Target sights weren't usually that style on a New England gun either. I'm leaning more Ohio. It seems to be a larger caliber for a target gun, my best guess, it's a hunting rifle that someone at some point installed better sights for better accuracy.