Help identifying!
- Thread starter Benjamin_Martin
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- brown bess flintlock musket
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That has a sideplate of an India Pattern aka 3rd Model Bess, but the stock is too short, and the nose of the stock is where it is missing a portion, plus there is no nose cap.
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Benjamin_Martin
32 Cal
Do you think it was cut? Or maybe a short land body? The butt of the gun just looks funny to me, different from the other India Patterns I’ve seen especially with the tiger stripe wood.
oldsarge79
32 Cal
If I am seeing this right, you have a flintlock cock with a percussion bolster, so it's really some kind of mixed up gun. And, the comb on the buttstock looks like it has been rounded. I would be very hesitant to buy it.
Benjamin_Martin
32 Cal
If anything I would just be getting it for display, was just interested in what specific model it may be. If it’s an Indian Pattern I’ll pass lol.
Indian Pattern does not mean a gun made in India. The 3rd. model Bess is often refereed to as the India pattern.
oldsarge79
32 Cal
If you just want a musket to hang over the fireplace, it would certainly do the job, but I wouldn't pay too much for it.
The problem with the 1970 1st, 2nd & 3rd model designations is that within each “model” the are 2-3 different Patterns of muskets.
Take the old 1st Model designation. In this group there are three long land patterns and two transitional patterns that are all vastly and visually different from one another.
Not really a problem, just a starting point. I didn't think the reply needed a further breakdown as it was only intended to explain that an India pattern Bess wasn't a "made in India reproduction". 
Yes more advanced students of the Bess knows the India pattern was developed from the commercial East India Company’s musket. A newby would think it would mean a musket intended for use by colonial forces in India. All that confusion could just avoided by calling them a Pattern 1793 or Pattern 1809 for the 2 versions of the 39” barreled muskets.Not really a problem, just a starting point. I didn't think the reply needed a further breakdown as it was only intended to explain that an India pattern Bess wasn't a "made in India reproduction".
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It just might be a percussion conversion that used a percussion ‘hammer’ in the flint jaws, if so it’d be, at the least, an item of some interest.
I would disagree, as a one time newbie many many years ago I clearly understood the basic differenced between the first, second and third models without knowing details of the various models within each division. Even at that time I knew of the East India Company, India pattern, 3rd. model, etc. and never thought of it as being a musket exclusively for Indian troops. There was no confusion there at least in my mind.
Yet right there, up thread, there is confusion. Other than barrel length, 1st, 2nd & 3rd model doesn’t clear up much. About as useful as the type A,B,C,D trade gun nonsense. Clear as mud.
