any help appreciated..percussion gun in which hammer strikes a long rod that runs up the right side of forepiece (about 20" long rod)and has cup on end which strikes the perc cap on nipple. Barrel itself is only 14" long, rifled, looks like .45; single screw to remove barrel from steel fitting on nose of gun. Serial #625 all over parts, including screws. What is left of a faint cartouche on barrel looks like "MINIE Bte" plus unreadable date. Top of barrel is stamped "C.C". Local gunsmith thinks maybe belgian or french, 1860s or 1870s.PLEASE HELP.Pass this on to anyone you think might know what it is. THANKS!!
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help me id this rifle?
- Thread starter marleyman
- Start date
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The only gunsmith I know of that did this external rod/cap striker was Alber G. Bagley, the firearm is in Ned Roberts book: The Cap Lock Rifle", but that doesn't mean that other gunsmiths didn't do this as well...
But Bagley's rifle only has a ~2 inch rod, he could have made longer rod modles as well... A 20 inch rod seems a tad long to get to the nipple area, plus a 14 inch barrel on top of that should place the muzzle about 34 inches away from the hammer. Right?
Do you have a picture you can post?
Does it have a flip up breech for loading?
Do a search on the word "Zimmerstutzen". It literally means "room shooter". These were indoor target guns. I don't read German very well, and I'm afraid you'll have to wade through lots of non-english sites before you might find a good one.
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/al899.htm (The picture is copywrited - I can't lift it to here.
Germans had a thing for short barreled target guns of normal sight radius. Anshutz, for one, still makes oddball but pricey guns for this event.
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/al899.htm (The picture is copywrited - I can't lift it to here.
Germans had a thing for short barreled target guns of normal sight radius. Anshutz, for one, still makes oddball but pricey guns for this event.
Stumpkiller: You are undoubtably right. I was going to say it is a German Parlor gun.
I have seen several similar guns, but the ones I saw were very small caliber (like .22) and were not muzzleloaders. I was told the small caliber breech loaders used things like .22 CBs.
I would think a .45 black powder gun would tend to fill up the Parlor with smoke, but then perhaps shooting thru a cloud is part of the game?
I have seen several similar guns, but the ones I saw were very small caliber (like .22) and were not muzzleloaders. I was told the small caliber breech loaders used things like .22 CBs.
I would think a .45 black powder gun would tend to fill up the Parlor with smoke, but then perhaps shooting thru a cloud is part of the game?
And, I hate to be the one to point this out, the 1850 gun at that site is, God help us, an in-line.
I was in the grocery store tonight, reading a muzzleloading/hunting magazine, and I see Hornady now has a sabot with three pre-attached propellant pellets for in-line shooters who can't count to three. That ought to appeal to 30% of them.
I was in the grocery store tonight, reading a muzzleloading/hunting magazine, and I see Hornady now has a sabot with three pre-attached propellant pellets for in-line shooters who can't count to three. That ought to appeal to 30% of them.
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Bawwwwwwwwwwwww-hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, harrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, choke, snickers, snicks, gafawwwwwwwwwwwww. :haha:
That really , really cracked me up!
I checked out those pics, but the only thing my gun really has in common is a wood stock! I will try to take some pics of it and post them...its gotta help.
On the subject of room shooters, I have heard that some of them only used the primer cap as the charge, it provided enough force to send something small and light across the room without maiming anyone.
On the subject of room shooters, I have heard that some of them only used the primer cap as the charge, it provided enough force to send something small and light across the room without maiming anyone.
Interesting.
Much plainer than the German Parlor guns I've seen and, as I said, much larger bore. Most of them were .22 or .20 (5 mm) caliber and most of them had the typical Target style stock with the high comb etc.
For totally wild speculation, it almost looks like a gun which was made to circumvent some stupid law.
What would you make if you wanted a rifle, but the barrel length couldn't be longer than 14 inches? Faced with a law like that, I think this gun is what you would end up with.
It isn't a one of a kind, or it wouldn't have the serial number it has. That a number of them were made implies to me that it was designed to get around a law, or for some kind of target shooting we know nothing about.
As I say, this is total speculation on my part, and I have no idea of such a law ever existed but it may have. Stranger things have happened.
Much plainer than the German Parlor guns I've seen and, as I said, much larger bore. Most of them were .22 or .20 (5 mm) caliber and most of them had the typical Target style stock with the high comb etc.
For totally wild speculation, it almost looks like a gun which was made to circumvent some stupid law.
What would you make if you wanted a rifle, but the barrel length couldn't be longer than 14 inches? Faced with a law like that, I think this gun is what you would end up with.
It isn't a one of a kind, or it wouldn't have the serial number it has. That a number of them were made implies to me that it was designed to get around a law, or for some kind of target shooting we know nothing about.
As I say, this is total speculation on my part, and I have no idea of such a law ever existed but it may have. Stranger things have happened.
Whew. Curiouser & curiouser. It looks like a military trainer with the sling swivels. It certainly appears well made and, with each piece having a matching number, certainly was mass produced.
Here's a SWAG - If the bore is smooth it may have been used to launch something beside a bullet. A seal spear perhaps? It's certainly not beefy enough for a line launcher, like a Lyle gun.
Maybe a backyard gun instead of a "room gun"?
Here's a SWAG - If the bore is smooth it may have been used to launch something beside a bullet. A seal spear perhaps? It's certainly not beefy enough for a line launcher, like a Lyle gun.
Maybe a backyard gun instead of a "room gun"?
Finally found out that this is a Chassepot de Chalon French training rifle used to familiarize troops with "new" percussion system. Made around 1865. Who knows how many still exist..very rare piece, maybe one of a kind.
Thanks for all your help and comments.
Thanks for all your help and comments.
