Help needed with age and identification of a Long Rifle

[OldSchoolAntiques]

My first post, so please forgive any mistakes, but I'd appreciate some help regarding a Kentucky or Pennsylvania "Long Rifle" with a Double Set Trigger. I'll begin by saying that it does not belong to me, but I've been sent a generous array of photos from the owner which may help. I'm in the UK, and my personal collection is limited to a pair of c1860 "Tower" percussion muskets and a Martini-action .303 cavalry rifle c1890, so a Long Rifle is not something I've come across before.

Aside from the photos, I can only add what information I have discovered for myself, some of which may not be correct. The overall length of the rifle is around 61 inches, with the barrel roughly 45 inches. It has the typical octagonal, small bore barrel (probably somewhere between .45 and .50 inch) which has been 'blued' and, I assume, rifled. It is currently fitted with a caplock percussion mechanism, but is this original? Given the length of the barrel, could this be an older rifle that has been "modernised" at some time, replacing an earlier flintlock mechanism? There are certainly signs of work around the barrel, where the percussion cap is fitted, and damage to the fore-stock that might suggest so.

The stock itself appears, in some areas, to be in much better condition than the rest of the rifle. Could this have been replaced? The brasswork certainly seems to be largely unmarked, which seems unlikely for a rifle which otherwise appears to be at least c1850, if not older. There is no patchbox - is that normal?

There are some marks on the metalwork, including what looks to be a shield-shaped emblem on the trigger guard. The vestiges of some engraving is just discernible on the lockplate, including what might be a standing figure, together with some foliate engraving (or possibly a monogram?) to the rear of the cockscrew. There is a simple pinstripe border. Towards the front of the plate is some more indistinguishable engraving which may be purely decorative. The name "John Simpson" is engraved into a rectangular brass plate, inset into the top of the barrel.

Any thoughts or advice on how old his might be, how original, and perhaps where it was made ... will be most welcome.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The stock itself appears, in some areas, to be in much better condition than the rest of the rifle. Could this have been replaced? The brasswork certainly seems to be largely unmarked, which seems unlikely for a rifle which otherwise appears to be at least c1850, if not older. There is no patchbox - is that normal?

Your are correct the stock does not show the age of the parts, so is likely a re-stocking of the old parts. The lock is a caplock, not converted from flint. Since it's made into your current stock there will be difficulty in determining if it was an old caplock joined with an older barrel converted from flint, or if the parts were all new at one point on a previous stock.

LD

 

[Phil Coffins]

The style is like a southern mountain rifle and may have been refinished.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I think the barrel and lock are original, the rest is cobbled together parts stuck in a new stock, the triggers look like they are out of some cheap kit gun.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Looks Like a Soddy Tennessee rifle or somewhere in that area. Never was flint. They were making guns like this in Tennessee into the 1920s.
I'd post this over an the American long rifle forum. They have guys there that will nail this right down

 

[OldSchoolAntiques]

Thanks for all your helpful replies ... which largely confirm my own suspicions.
I was concerned (?) by the superficial metalwork on the barrel around the percussion nipple, which either suggests a serious repair or a modification, and changing over from flintlock to percussion seemed the most logical.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I’m not an expert, but since this is an open forum I’ll submit some opinions. However, I would agree with posting it on the American Longrifles Forum. There are some notable authorities who post regularly there.

I would agree that it looks like a Tennessee rifle. It is my understanding that a name in a silver plate on the barrel would more likely be the name of the original owner, the one who commissioned the rifle, than the builder. Certain subtle features, like the protruding extension on the drum and the ridge running down the wrist and into the buttstock, I believe indicate a Tennessee origin. The open work nose cap, poured in place, is a common feature on late southern rifles. A lot of these rifles had hand-forged iron hardware (buttplate, trigger guard, etc.) but this one has brass, which may be recycled. The lock was originally percussion. The triggers do look funny, but I think the southern gunsmiths, probably more than gunmakers in other areas, allowed themselves freedom of expression. I think these triggers are an example, and they are likely handmade originals.

I don’t think the subject rifle is particularly valuable, but it is a nice example of a late percussion era mountain rifle from the American southeast. Thank you for showing it!

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

After casting about on the internet I find that there was a large family of Simpsons involved in the gunmaking trade in Tennessee through the 1790s onward. This is probably one of the later ones.
The application of the brass around the drum area is probably to cover or protect the barrel from the corrosive caps. The triggers and lock are typical examples available from hardware stores in the time period.
You need to post this on the ALR, they will know all about it.

 

[Hiverano]

I would agree with Notchy Bob and Mike Brooks, probably a restock rifle.

 

[OldSchoolAntiques]

Thanks again for all your suggestions and observations. Much appreciated.

 

[Hiverano]

The style is like a southern mountain rifle and may have been refinished.

I think your reply is correct Phil when reviewing the pictures shown and conditions of everything.

 

[Thagomizer]

Huh? How do large rifle primers "improve performance" on an antique percussion rifle?

 

[rich pierce]

I don’t think this is going to be a shooter. It will go bang, maybe.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Huh? How do large rifle primers "improve performance" on an antique percussion rifle?

DUDE was a scammer
Dude is gone now

LD

 

[Hiverano]

My first post, so please forgive any mistakes, but I'd appreciate some help regarding a Kentucky or Pennsylvania "Long Rifle" with a Double Set Trigger. I'll begin by saying that it does not belong to me, but I've been sent a generous array of photos from the owner which may help. I'm in the UK, and my personal collection is limited to a pair of c1860 "Tower" percussion muskets and a Martini-action .303 cavalry rifle c1890, so a Long Rifle is not something I've come across before.

Aside from the photos, I can only add what information I have discovered for myself, some of which may not be correct. The overall length of the rifle is around 61 inches, with the barrel roughly 45 inches. It has the typical octagonal, small bore barrel (probably somewhere between .45 and .50 inch) which has been 'blued' and, I assume, rifled. It is currently fitted with a caplock percussion mechanism, but is this original? Given the length of the barrel, could this be an older rifle that has been "modernised" at some time, replacing an earlier flintlock mechanism? There are certainly signs of work around the barrel, where the percussion cap is fitted, and damage to the fore-stock that might suggest so.

The stock itself appears, in some areas, to be in much better condition than the rest of the rifle. Could this have been replaced? The brasswork certainly seems to be largely unmarked, which seems unlikely for a rifle which otherwise appears to be at least c1850, if not older. There is no patchbox - is that normal?

There are some marks on the metalwork, including what looks to be a shield-shaped emblem on the trigger guard. The vestiges of some engraving is just discernible on the lockplate, including what might be a standing figure, together with some foliate engraving (or possibly a monogram?) to the rear of the cockscrew. There is a simple pinstripe border. Towards the front of the plate is some more indistinguishable engraving which may be purely decorative. The name "John Simpson" is engraved into a rectangular brass plate, inset into the top of the barrel.

Any thoughts or advice on how old his might be, how original, and perhaps where it was made ... will be most welcome.

I had one much like your gun, it is an H.E. Leman Trade Rifle era 1850 (donated to the Museum of the Mountain Man) compare the pictures. Look at the lock plate shape, shape of stock, etc.

Buck