Help with my gun

[woodse guy]

I have a 50 cal. that my dad gave me when I graduated from high school When I got the gun it was rusted and I tried to shoot it any way well the ball got stuck and I couldn't get it out. Well life got busy and thats the way the gun stayed. Fast forward to now and the ball is out. My dad being in his seventies has forgot most of what I need to know now. I know that I will have to work up a load that the gun likes but I have some general questions first. After a lot of cleaning I think the gun is ready to shoot.

1. If my barrel is any good what is the max amount of powder that I can use.
2. The balls that I have are .490 what size patch should I start with.
3. When we shot when I was little we would put the patch in our mouth for lube is that still the way to do it or do you use preluded patches.
4. Where can I find real black powder that I don't have to take out a loan to buy I don't need 25 pounds right now.
5. I realize that most of these questions have probably already been asked if so please point me in the right direction to find what I need to know.
6. I seen a thread about a patch that was tore up after it was shot what should they look like and what do you use for patch material.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I have a 50 cal. that my dad gave me when I graduated from high school When I got the gun it was rusted and I tried to shoot it any way well the ball got stuck and I couldn't get it out. Well life got busy and thats the way the gun stayed. Fast forward to now and the ball is out. My dad being in his seventies has forgot most of what I need to know now. I know that I will have to work up a load that the gun likes but I have some general questions first. After a lot of cleaning I think the gun is ready to shoot.

1. If my barrel is any good what is the max amount of powder that I can use.
2. The balls that I have are .490 what size patch should I start with.
3. When we shot when I was little we would put the patch in our mouth for lube is that still the way to do it or do you use preluded patches.
4. Where can I find real black powder that I don't have to take out a loan to buy I don't need 25 pounds right now.
5. I realize that most of these questions have probably already been asked if so please point me in the right direction to find what I need to know.
6. I seen a thread about a patch that was tore up after it was shot what should they look like and what do you use for patch material.

1. It's not how much powder is max, it's what do I start with! And the answer is 50 grains, and increase by 5 grains to find the two "sweet spots" where the groups tighten-up. For me that's about 45-50 grains and at 72 grains of 3Fg Goex with my "48"-twist 28"-long barreled Lyman Trade Rifle.

2. Start with a .015 patch. If it starts really easy, try a .018, and then a .020. You shouldn't need a hammer to hit the short starter.

3. Spit for lube is still good if you're going to shoot right away. If hunting, try a lube of some sort, or pre-lubed patches like I use.

4. Black powder is available shipped to your door in quantities as little as five pounds. If you buy that much (cause you're really into the hobby) the cost is about a break-even (after the haz-mat fee) compared to buying a single can at a time. Go to the NMLRA web site and look-up a contact person in your state with the Field Reps or Charter Clubs listings on the left side of the home page. They'll be glad to point you in the right direction I'm sure.

5. Try looking in the forum archives for most of the questions here have been asked & answered by others. It's O-K to ask questions!

6. Spent patches should have the outline of the ball, and be slightly frayed at the edge, but no signs of burn-through or tearing. I myself use a .018 pre-lubed pillow-ticking in my .50 cal rifle.

Have fun and be safe. Glad to hear that you got the rifle cleaned-out. Lots of memories there to pass along to the next generation!

Dave

 

[woodse guy]

If there is burn-through or tearing what is wrong and what does it matter?

 

[oldude]

Tearng normaly indicates being cut by the lands when the patch is to thick, sometimes with a new barrel the lands are to sharp and cut/tear the patch.Burn out indicates to much powder. Burn out AND tearing could be caused by a patch/ball combo being to tight in the bore (thus tearing)causing the ball/patch moveing to slow down the bore (thus burn out). Bent

 

[Zonie]

Because your asking your questions on the Percussion Forum I'll assume your rifle is a cap lock.

Cap lock rifles use a #11 percussion cap and they will shoot Pyrodex, which is a synthetic powder that is carried by most gun stores.
Depending on your supplier the cost will range between $15 and $21/pound.

You can use either "P", "RS" or Select grades.
You DO NOT want to buy ANY powder Pellets. They are made for modern muzzleloaders and work very poorly in a sidelock gun. They also cost an arm and a leg.

While your at the gun store ask them if they sell black powder. They cannot have it out on the shelves like they can with the synthetic powders but a few of them do carry it, locked away in its vault.

As was indicated, maximum powder loads are not the thing to aim at using but to answer your question your gun, shooting a patched roundball should be safe up to a 100 grain powder load.

Spit can be used as a patch lube but if the gun is not going to be shot for awhile after loading I do not recommend it. It can leave a rust ring in the bore.

Other patch lubes range from factory made Bore Butter (pretty expensive) to unsalted Crisco to olive oil or just plain vegetable oil for cooking.

Your patches need to be made from pure cotton or linen. Synthetic man made fibers don't work very well and can leave plastics in the bore which are hard to clean out.
The material should be a tight weave and may range from .010 to .020 thick. The best accuracy is usually with the thicker patches but of course they are harder to load.

After shooting the patch should not show any burn thru's or cuts in it. The area behind the ball will be dark brown. The outer edges will be badly frayed from the wind hitting them as they leave the muzzle.
A torn or burned thru patch will give very poor accuracy.
Speaking of burned thru patches there is a gunpowder called Seven7seven that is a black powder substitute. It has a habit of burning thru cloth patches.

 

[woodse guy]

I wish that I had known that some stores could carry it but it had to be locked up. Yes it is a cap lock the barrel is a Hopkins and Allen not sure if that is what the gun is or if it was put together from parts. Thanks for the 100 grain max load just want to know a place to stop so as not to be hurting my self or the gun. The patch material that I have was left over from my dad. I have seen some of the same stuff in catalogs but I can't remember what it's called pillow something I think. I would like to use real black powder if I can find some around here.

 

[mykeal]

Pillow ticking.

Dense weave, 100% cotton, 0.015" to 0.020" thick and fairly inexpensive: everything you could want in a patch material. If you buy yard of it from a fabric store be sure to wash and dry it twice to remove 'sizing' (starch) before using it in the gun.

 

[woodse guy]

I think that is what dad called it.

 

[woodse guy]

Once I find a load that my gun likes how far is it possible to effectively harvest an animal. If I can do my part. What is the lethal limit of a round ball.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Once I find a load that my gun likes how far is it possible to effectively harvest an animal. If I can do my part. What is the lethal limit of a round ball.

The lethal limit depends upon various factors, especially the mass of the ball. A .58 launched by 100+ grains of powder will travel and be effective perhaps 25-50% longer than a .50 cal. Most .50's are good to 100 yards IF you launch it with enough force and can "do your part". A 555 grain .58 Minnie Ball in front of 60 grains of 2F is capable of going through 3 soldiers stacked one in front of the other. This was during the Civil War, and was widely written about.

Each hunter sets limits upon themselves based upon how good of a shot they are and the equipment that they're using. Other factors such as wind, weather, terrain, and lighting conditions all play a role in this decision. There isn't a universal answer to your question. Practice done with the exact shooting conditions and equipment that you'll be using during the hunt would obviously be beneficial.

Good luck!

Dave

 

[woodse guy]

Thanks I will finally get to shot my gun this weekend. I don't care what the temperature is I'm going to shoot something. I'm planning to start at 50 yards and go from there. I still don't know if my barrel is any good. I can not wait for this weekend.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

You may want to start at 25 yards on a bench to see where the sights are left-to-right. The less hang time in the wind, the less wind can effect flight. After you set the windage adjustment, then move back to 50 and adjust the vertical. It actually takes less time that way and less shots to get into the middle of the black. Then take her back to 100 yards and remember to compensate for wind drift if you have to.

Good luck with her!

dave

 

[woodse guy]

Thanks I will do that it's been 15 years since I have got to shot the gun. I still can't believe that the rifling in not gone in the barrel. Hope it shoots o.k. but if not new barrel.

 

[woodse guy]

How big of a peice do I cut for a patch?

 

[William O.]

Just starting out you might want to pick up some pre-cut, pre-lubed patches. Try .015 thickness first; good luck and let us know how she shoots.

 

[woodse guy]

O.k. started out with a .015 patch preluded. Starting the patch was kind of hard at about 8 inches down the barrel it was real hard had to ram it down. Then at about maybe a foot or so down it was like the ball just dropped down on its own. Then about three to four inches from the bottom it was very hard again. At 25 yards it shot to the left all the time messed up and moved the sight the wrong way (not use to iron sights any more) :redface: it still hit in the same place. Could not find any patches to see what they looked like I was shooting 60 grains of 2f powder. Also while out shooting how many shots before you run a patch thru the barrel to clean out the fouling and do you put anything on it to help clean or just use a dry patch.

 

[Zonie]

The "tight-loose-tight" condition you found while loading indicates the barrel has been 'ringed'.

This is usually the result of someone ramming the ball part way down the barrel but stopping before the ball has reached the top of the powder charge.

If the gun is fired after doing this the barrel, right below the partially rammed ball will sometimes be 'bulged' or 'ringed'.

Shooting a muzzleloading barrel that has been 'ringed' usually isn't dangerous but accuracy is usually hurt.

There is no good rule for figuring out when to 'wipe' the bore. I usually pay special attention to how hard each load is. When it starts to get moderatly difficult to ram the ball down to the powder I finish loading and take the shot.
Then, before doing anything else I wipe the fouling out of the bore.

NEVER run a totally dry patch down a fouled bore.
That is a very good way to get your patch/jag/ramrod stuck.

The wiping patch needs to be wetter than moist but dryer than 'wet'.
Run it down to the breech and let it sit there for 10-30 seconds. Then pull it back out of the bore.

The waiting period allows the wetness from the wiping patch to soak into the fouling and soften it. Then, when you pull the patch/jag/ramrod back out of the bore it will wipe off 95+ percent of the fouling.

After the fouling has been wiped out then running one dry or slightly oiled patch down the bore will ready the gun for the next load.

 

[woodse guy]

Could the tight loose tight also be because the barrel was so rusted it my have some pitting in it. What do you suggest to use to moisten the patch with.

 

[Zonie]

Could be but it's unlikely it would be heavily rusted in the upper and lower areas of the bore and nice and smooth in the middle.

To moisten your patch for wiping you can use water or a lot of spit.

Some folks use a water/Balistol mix but the main thing you want is water. It readily dissolves black powder (or Pyrodex) fouling.

 

[woodse guy]

Thanks was thinking that the pitting might have been pulling the patch a little bit and causing the problem. I'm going to try shooting it a few more times and see if it will help any if not I will order a new barrel. Who makes a good barrel these days.