Help with my gun

[Dave Rosenthal]

Unless you're pumping something through the breech (warm water works fine) a layer of crud is being left in the breech plug area. This contamination is what leads to the pitting problem in the first place.

Pumping action will break-up the crud and help to clean the residue off of the pitted areas too. The faster you can move the water, the more crud you will flush out of the rifle.

What you might want to do is to use a bucket for the pumping, as well as a range rod. I use the deep sink in my basement and I cover the washing machine with a thick piece of plastic that has a little give to it and use it as my cleaning table.

I do a "range cleaning" using a BP solvent called Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine. I pump this stuff all of the way through the rifle from the muzzle and spraying out the nipple! When I get home and take the rifle apart, I flush the bore with warm water using the pumping method and the crud still flows out of the breech! Sounds like you need to do the same as I do.

Once you get used to doing a really good cleaning, then test the rifle for group size. Based upon that determination and other factors, then and only then are you ready to replace the barrel. Otherwise your new barrel will get pitted too........

Good luck with the pumping & cleaning!

Dave

 

[woodse guy]

I finally used water and I didn't get alot of crud out I did get some. After I used a patch I scrubed the bore with a brush and got more out. I put the gun back together and after more scrubing and running patches down I used more number 13 bore cleaner. I'm not getting any more fouling out but there is still rust :cursing: . Right not I have Kroil sitting in the barrel and will keep it oiled for a day and then scrub it again with the brush and more patches. What else can I use to help out. I thought that I was about done with rust but now I start again will shooting help get any rust out? To those that can get anybody to try water I'm now with you water is the only way to go. :bow: :bow:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

You may want to get all of the way down into the breech with a smaller-than-bore-size brush. This along with soapy warm water will help to break-up the accumulated crud that's still in the breech.

It sounds like you've had the epiphany, and are well on your way to getting rid of the rust problem. Good luck with it and continue to keep us "oldsters" informed.

Dave

 

[woodse guy]

I seen a breech scraper in TOTW do they work and is there something better then kroil to use to get under the rust.

Before you can be old and wise you must first be young and stupid. :shake:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

A breech scraper is a good idea. So is a slightly undersized bore brush for getting all of the way down to the bottom of the breech. Just remember to give it a good flushing after you do either, so the crud doesn't just stay in there!

Kroil works well. Some members here would soak the bore overnight using a plug on both ends, and then turning the barrel every-so-often to keep fresh solution working on the entire bore. Lapping compound like JB paste also works. Which ever you decide, please read the directions, as you don't want to make a chemical cocktail that will take the wind out of your sails :wink:

Good luck with the cleaning! :thumbsup:

Dave

 

[Zonie]

I once recieved a bottle of #13 bore cleaner with a muzzleloader I bought and I thought I would try it.

I found that it instantly formed a light layer of rust in my newly cleaned bore.

Being somewhat amazed by this I got down one of my C&B revolvers and washed the clean bore with soap and water. No rust.
I then wiped the bore with #13 bore cleaner and before I could get a clean drying patch down the bore surface rust had formed.

I vowed to never use that stuff again and happily I haven't had further issues with flash rust forming during or after cleaning.

 

[woodse guy]

I gave it another good scrubbing tonight. I ran another patch of Kroil down the barrel and will let it sit until tomorrow. I didn't see a lot of rust on the patches but I was still getting black stuff on the patch not sure if it was fouling or not. While I was scrubbing I put some WD-40 in the barrel and ran the brush back and forth that got a lot out. How much of a smaller brush do I need to use to get all the way down in the breach.

 

[woodse guy]

And I think the scrubbing is done until i get the breach scraper that I ordered. When I thought that I was done tonight I ran a alcohol patch done the bore. These patches are white where the patch was in contact with the bore it is now a light egg shell color. Have I finally beaten the rust right now?

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

:applause: :applause: :applause: Sounds like it to me!

Now don't forget to give the bore some light oil like Barricade to keep it from rusting. The alcohol is a good drying agent, but a lousy rust preventative! :thumbsup:

Good luck with the scraper! Sounds like you saved the expense of a new barrel, especially if this current one groups nice!

Dave

 

[woodse guy]

I have been using Rem Oil right now. I ordered some Ballistol from TOTW.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Sounds great! :thumbsup: and continued success with that rifle!

Dave

 

[woodse guy]

We I can't get a group to save my life I tried 50, 60, and 70 grains of powder. And nothing at 60 if I tamp the ball down twice I get a nice big rip in the patch. And no matter what I did with 70 I got rips. I can get about two or three shots and then I need to clean the barrel or I can't get the next ball started. The ball is .490 not sure how thick the patch is what do I do now.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you don't see evidence of burrs on the lands that are cutting the patch fabric, You need to use a micrometer, or caliper, to measure those patches. They are obviously too thin. Or, you are using the wrong lube, or too large a ball diameter( not likely for a .50 cal. rifle.)[OR, you may have sharp edges on the front of the lands at the muzzle that are tearing the patches when you seat the ball in the patch at the muzzle.]

Ask friends if they have either a micrometer or caliper you can use, or stop by any machine shop with some of your patches, and ask them to measure the thickness of the patches.

You can buy a caliper from some of the suppliers- Mid-South, Midway USA, etc.-- for about $20.00 and have your own. These are DIAL calipers- not the electric "digital" caliper that are great places to store dead batteries for most of us. :grin:

The latter calipers are way too expensive, unless you use them daily in your work. Hunt pawn shops, antique stores, estate sales, for old micrometers. Take a piece of metal of known thickness(like a drill bit?) to check these, but once in awhile, you can get a good price on used tools.

Where to get thicker patching fabric? At your local fabric stores. JoAnn Fabrics is a popular chain store that seems to have stores all over the country. There are others. Some Walmarts are still carrying fabric, but they are being fazed out in other stores. Call first.

Look for mattress ticking, denim, canvas, and linen. Pocket drill works but is usually not very thick. You are looking for fabrics that have a high weave count, (ie. # of threads per inch), and that are thick enough. ( Cotton flannel, which we use for cleaning patches, has a LOW thread count, and is very thin!, for example.)

You can also order different thicknesses of patching in either strips or in pre-cut patches from Track, Dixie Gun Works, and most of the other suppliers.

If you don't know them, go to the upper end of the index to this forum, and look for the box marked " Member Resources". Scroll down to "Articles, Charts, and Links." Click on the Links, and you will go to a long list of suppliers, broken down into areas of interest, to some extent.

If you click on any of these listed names, you will be taken to their website catalogs, which you can then browse to find contact phone numbers, addresses, and products available. Very Helpful "Resource"! :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[woodse guy]

With 60 grains of powder when I have found a patch on the out line of the ball the patch has a few threads broke but not all the way through. My brother has a set of digital calipers that I can use. Could the patch be to thick for the ball? I'm using Stumpy's moose juice. I was going to order a few different sizes of patches from TOTW just to try some out. I must confess right now I have a sickness I have to tinker with my gun until I get it to shoot the best that it can close enough is not good enough for me. :redface: I should have a smaller size ball to try next weekend I can't shoot during the week because of work.

 

[paulvallandigham]

My Green Mountain barrel measures .501" in diameter bore size, so the .490 ball size works fine when I use a patch that is .015-.018" thick. I have used .020" patches, but they do seem a bit too tight in my barrels. I am not getting patch tearing, or cuts, but I am also not getting the best accuracy.

Until you measure the patches you are using, there is simply no way to guess if the patch is too thick. From the condition of the fired patches, its much more likely that they are too thin.

Measure the patch material, and look at the fired patches. YOu should see a dark brown "ring" where the patch is squeezed between the ball and the rifling. What you don't want to see is radiating black streaks running from this brown ring, forward towards the muzzle. These streaks occur because the patch is too thin, and gas is blowing by in the bottom of the grooves of the rifling. :shocked2:

 

[woodse guy]

I'm going out to my brothers house tonight and I will measure a dry and lubed patch. I will also measure the bore. I had the dark brown ring on moist of them. When I would tamp the ball down twice the patch would get blown apart right behind the ball. I have not seen the black streaks but I also didn't know what to look for either and I have already threw all of the old patches away so I can't look either.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Paul pretty much covered the patch issue, except to say that you have to make sure that you're using the right size (diameter) patches. A .50 cal rifle should be using .50-.59 diameter patches, not the .45-.50 cal ones. Sometimes if you "miss" placing the .490 ball in the middle of the smaller patches, when you push them into the muzzle, they may be off-center enough to cause the blow-by condition that Paul speaks of :wink: . Folks that are new to the hobby sometimes buy the wrong diameter patches without knowing it :shocked2: .

Let us know what's up after the trip to your brother's house.

Dave

 

[woodse guy]

The patch that I'm using is 1 1/4 inch square. I measured the patches dry I measured in two places with the calipers first ant the end that one was .016 then I went further into the caliper where it was flat that one was .020. Wet the patches where .019 at the end and at the flat part it was .022. I also measured the bore in the groove the measurement was .508 on the flat part it measured .489. :idunno: Need some help now.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Sounds like you have enough patch width with the 1 1/4" size. I'm beginning to think of asking you how much force does it take on the short starter to get the PRB started? If it's relatively easy, you may want to purchase some .495 balls since the reading that you took is larger than .50 cal. for your bore size. A slightly tighter patch combo could be called for if you're not ripping patches on a rough bore.

Others here may have further info about this---I'm on my first cup of coffee right now.....

Dave

 

[woodse guy]

It is not easy at all to start the ball. Should it leave a mark in the ball when I start it. After about three shots after the ball is started I have to grab the ram rod with both hands and start driving the ball down the barrel. If you have ever built fence with metal t post and a t post driver you know the motion that I'm using. Even after I get the ball started when I use the short starter I have to put just about all my weight on it to get it all the way down. With the ball starter I have to hit it with my hand to get it to even start the ball.