Help with refinishing my muzzle crown

[oldwolf]

That makes some sense.

What is "Lever B"?

 

[zimmerstutzen]

A gun smith that can't figure an octagon barrel would be some place to stay far, far, far away from.

 

[30coupe]

Even this would probably do it.

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-hex-bit-countersink-tool-68535.html

 

[M. De Land]

That deformed area you see on my barrel at 3:00 (right below the sight) actually extends into the bore area. If I take a dental pick and lightly rub it across the deformation, from breech to muzzle, the pick hangs up right on that spot. I think I have no choice but to re-shape the crown until the deformity has been removed.
View attachment 3681

That barrel needs to be removed , put in a lathe and cut back a good .125 to make sure all the distortion if removed.Then a good chamfer cut with a crowning tool in the tool post or countersink in the tail stock. What you want is a smooth angular transition cut (45-60 degrees) through the land end and into the groove bottom at the muzzle.
Once the angle is established through the land end and into the groove bottom it can be dressed up with your thumb in a doubled over piece of emery cloth.
When dressing make sure to not let the emery paper get over the top of the land corner and into the bore proper.

 

[Eterry]

That makes some sense.

What is "Lever B"?

What is Lever B ?

Leave her be....lol...

I'm amazed that everyone on here in such a hurry to cut, carve, etc. on the muzzle and I feel like I'm at a product show with all the tools being posted...but no one knows or has asked how good or bad the dang thing will shoot...

I think you are seriously getting the cart before the horse...you may have a tack driver in your hands and carving on the crown will make it worse...

Remember...you can't put the metal back on..

 

[oldwolf]

True,,,but the battered area of the crown is bulging into the path of the patched ball.
I suppose there is a small chance that could increase accuracy...

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The fellow I mentioned that taught me to crown with a countersink, made excellent target barrels. He also made choked rifle barrels. The last inch couple inches of the bore were a couple thousandths constricted. it was a "thing" that did not seem to catch on with most folks, but the choked barrels did shoot better than average. (The famous Englishman and Ballistics expert, Alexander Henry also promoted choked bore rifles.)

 

[M. De Land]

The fellow I mentioned that taught me to crown with a countersink, made excellent target barrels. He also made choked rifle barrels. The last inch couple inches of the bore were a couple thousandths constricted. it was a "thing" that did not seem to catch on with most folks, but the choked barrels did shoot better than average. (The famous Englishman and Ballistics expert, Alexander Henry also promoted choked bore rifles.)

Choked rifle barrels were historically lapped not cut and the choke is measured in 10/1000ths not full 1000ths.
Pedersoli puts choke in some of their barrels and they use broaching last I read. It is speculated that they accomplish choking by differential heating. It is thought that they run a heating coil over the barrel exterior, making increasingly wider turns as it is wound on, turn on the juice, warm the barrel steel, then pull the broach through. The tighter the coil the more heat radiated into the barrel and expansion causes the taper cut of the broach pull.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Don't know how Hoppy Hopkins at H&H did it, I was at his shop a few times down outside of Baltimore. Mostly to BS and target shoot. He had a range set up over the machinery. Alex Henry's barrel for the Martini started at one diameter and within 8 inches of the chamber constricted by 4 thousandths of an inch, then the last few inches at the muzzle constricted another 2 thousandths. This was great for soft lead bullets, but when hard alloys were loaded in early Henry Rifles they suffered failures similar to barrel obstructions. That may be how Pedersoli does it today but has nothing to do with Henry barrels or H&H.

 

[32 ballard xl]

The fellow I mentioned that taught me to crown with a countersink, made excellent target barrels. He also made choked rifle barrels. The last inch couple inches of the bore were a couple thousandths constricted. it was a "thing" that did not seem to catch on with most folks, but the choked barrels did shoot better than average. (The famous Englishman and Ballistics expert, Alexander Henry also promoted choked bore rifles.)

The famous American and ballistics expert Harry Pope taper bored and choked his barrels.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The famous American and ballistics expert Harry Pope taper bored and choked his barrels.

I once had one of Harry Pope's straight line cartridge loaders. Lost it when the house and shop burned. Measured right at .331 for bullet diameter.

 

[Zonie]

Just a warning about using any of those countersink tools I saw in a post above.
They usually have a hexagon drive on them so they can be powered by an electric drill.

If they are going to be used to remove the deformed area on the OP's gun's muzzle it should never be done with a power tool turning the countersink.

Almost every time a electric drill is used to power them when they are cutting metal, they will chatter creating a rough, bumpy surface. Not the kind of thing one would want to see at the muzzle of a gun.

Powered by hand only, they can remove the high areas but don't try to force them towards the area that needs fixing. Just let the tool find its own path while it is being rotated and in almost no time the problem will be fixed.

 

[30coupe]

Just a warning about using any of those countersink tools I saw in a post above.
They usually have a hexagon drive on them so they can be powered by an electric drill.

If they are going to be used to remove the deformed area on the OP's gun's muzzle it should never be done with a power tool turning the countersink.

Almost every time a electric drill is used to power them when they are cutting metal, they will chatter creating a rough, bumpy surface. Not the kind of thing one would want to see at the muzzle of a gun.

Powered by hand only, they can remove the high areas but don't try to force them towards the area that needs fixing. Just let the tool find its own path while it is being rotated and in almost no time the problem will be fixed.

This! I would be willing to bet this is all it will take, plus a bit of time with the emery cloth. I always start with the least intrusive thing first. If this doesn't work, the barrel can be cut back, but cutting would not be my first option. A few minutes with hand tools will have it back in action.

 

[oldwolf]

Getting ready to send the gunsmith dimensional photos of the barrel.

 

[arcticap]

I can't help but to wonder how the crown got that way in the first place.
Such as was it caused by not using a muzzle protector during cleaning or by someone trying to re-crown the muzzle at home and botching it up?

 

[oldwolf]

It looks like it was dropped on the muzzle or hit with a hammer.
Some one sure beat the H-E-Double-Toothpicks out of it.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Yesterday:Hoppy Hopkins who made some of the best barrels available in the 1980's used a countersink with a 45 or 60 degree angle mounted in a brace and did it by hand, just lightly. ........ Don't use a power drill it will spin too fast and chatter.

Echo:

Today: Almost every time a electric drill is used to power them when they are cutting metal, they will chatter creating a rough, bumpy surface. Not the kind of thing one would want to see at the muzzle of a gun.


Mount the barrel between two pieces of wood padded with leather in a vise. The recrown with a countersink can be done in about 40 seconds. start to finish including clean up.

 

[M. De Land]

The famous American and ballistics expert Harry Pope taper bored and choked his barrels.

Yes, Pope did put taper in his gain twist barrels but it was not machine cut, it was lapped in. He used a series of one inch tapered plug gauges that would drop increasing farther up bore as the taper progressed, to measure the taper increase. He did this using leather washer laps that could rotate with the twist increase, according to "Smiths" book on Popes barrels.
Poured lead lap slugs cannot work in a gain twist for obvious reasons.
Taper does not need to be much and when it is lapped only requires 3-5 10/1000s. The reason it works is that the increase bullet friction in the progressive taper, tensions the barrel forward and dampens harmonics (barrel whip). The same effect can be accomplished in choking at the muzzle only from an other wise level bore, as Horrace Warner and Norman Brockway discovered in their match , cap lock, barrel making.
Harry Pope made fine barrels but George Schoyan (Sp) a contemporary of Popes, and several others, made just as accurate barrels and won many matches pitted against Pope barrels. They each had their fans and adherents.

 

[M. De Land]

Yesterday:Hoppy Hopkins who made some of the best barrels available in the 1980's used a countersink with a 45 or 60 degree angle mounted in a brace and did it by hand, just lightly. ........ Don't use a power drill it will spin too fast and chatter.

Echo:

Today: Almost every time a electric drill is used to power them when they are cutting metal, they will chatter creating a rough, bumpy surface. Not the kind of thing one would want to see at the muzzle of a gun.


Mount the barrel between two pieces of wood padded with leather in a vise. The recrown with a countersink can be done in about 40 seconds. start to finish including clean up.

If one is going to hand crown taper than it is done most accurately through a bushing-ed pull rod, rotated from the other end of the barrel . This maintains perfect, perpendicular, coaxial crown axis (square), which is hard to do without a lathe or at least snugly fitting pilot on the crown cutter. Using a tapered, non-piloted counter bore , in the crown, is not a very accurate way to get it square with the muzzle.

 

[M. De Land]

It looks like it was dropped on the muzzle or hit with a hammer.
Some one sure beat the H-E-Double-Toothpicks out of it.

Yeah, looks like a muzzle drop to me as well!