Here She is

[Mike Brooks]

Mike, I honestly don't give a rat's ass (forgive the French) what anyone thinks or says about the rifle.

So why post pictures of it? I'm not going to critique your gun, I have critiqued TVM guns before so doing so again would be repetitious.
I hope you enjoy it. I know it exceeds your expectations and that's good. :thumbsup:

 

[Mike Brooks]

So, out of curiosity what is it that everyone likes about this gun. Most replys are one word compliments. I'm wonder what folks like about this gun specifically?

what do you like about it mike since you ask first. :v

I like the color of the wood, I don't recall seeing a TVM with this nice of color. I also like the curl pattern in the wood , especially how it has alot in the lower forestock. Interesting piece of wood. A little more curl in the buttstock would have been nice, but that's how it goes. I would use a piece like this to stock a gun with out hesitation as long as it was dense. I think I might have layed it out on the blank so the grain ran better through the wrist, but that's just me.
The rest is pure TVM. If you like that style it's a real gem.

 

[hanshi]

So, out of curiosity what is it that everyone likes about this gun. Most replys are one word compliments. I'm wonder what folks like about this gun specifically?

what do you like about it mike since you ask first. :v

I like the color of the wood, I don't recall seeing a TVM with this nice of color. I also like the curl pattern in the wood , especially how it has alot in the lower forestock. Interesting piece of wood. A little more curl in the buttstock would have been nice, but that's how it goes. I would use a piece like this to stock a gun with out hesitation as long as it was dense. I think I might have layed it out on the blank so the grain ran better through the wrist, but that's just me.
The rest is pure TVM. If you like that style it's a real gem.

Mike, as for what others like about it, well, either read their posts of ask them.

(Q) Why did I post pics? (A) 1. I am fond of it. 2. many forum members asked for pics. 3. Posting pics is the purpose of this section. 4. Posting pics of our toys is one of the pleasures of this forum.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Mike, as for what others like about it, well, either read their posts of ask them.

Instead of "she's a real beauty" or "real nice" or "I bet she shoots as good as she looks" I was looking for a more in depth explanation of "she's a real beauty" or "real nice" or "I bet she shoots as good as she looks". Something more than just superficial positive comments. What makes her a "real beauty". Something more like in depth thought instead of rote positive compliment.
Looking for an explanation of what makes this a great gun. Can anybody explain? :idunno: Look at my post on what I liked about it..... Possibly a lesson provoking deep thinking.....perhaps a lost cause.

 

[roundball]

Yes, the reasoning is so simple that any intelligent rational adult understands it.

"...you did your homework, decided what you wanted, built your spec sheet, placed the order, paid your money, and received exactly what you ordered as promised...doesn't get any better than that..."

 

[jdkerstetter]

Wasn't going to post but I need to build up my count some I'm more credible :wink:

Heck I don't even know what I'm doing over here from the ALR....must have senced M.B. was in trouble :grin:

Hanshi, Now don't take this the wrong way, but if you do you will eventually figure it out.

I'm glad you are happy with your new rifle. Everybody knows that feeling, it's like a new truck. You researched, ordered, waited and now you have it and your excited.

Problem is that what you have here is....a truck, but a special order truck built for you. A skillful "assemblage" of parts you specified. Good parts but the only craftsman ship I see is in "assembly".

See, when you order that truck they don't let you change the body style, just the trim. This rifle has no soul....it is generic. The wood and hardware are left too heavy. The rear moulding at the lockplates stands out as it is too high and the only moulding there is. It is not HC/PC at all. But if it functions it will be a perfectly fine hunting [strike]truck[/strike]...er rifle.

You posted up front that "I've never shouldered a finer rifle than this". Well, every mother feels that way about their children....well almost.

That said, unless you are simply referencing the fit...and I don't mean this as an insult....I sincerely hope you get to handle more guns as this one is far from the finest and you are really missing out. Sincerely, J.D.

p.s. where the heck is spell check on this forum?

 

[kodiakmarine]

Congratulations Hanshi. This rifle is a beauty! I really like the work of Matt Avance. TVM puts out a high quality product. I envy you the fun you will have with it. :hatsoff:

 

[kodiakmarine]

Hanshi, I've just noticerd another reply and I have to say one thing more. There is a certain snobbishness among some people in the muzzleloading community. They spend more money on one rifle than most of the rest of us can and love to flaunt it. It seems as if we can't have a single thread without their sour condescension.

I would like to post a lin to an article Link This was written by someone who buys guns for a museum as well as for his own collection. It concerns the Rocky Mountain fur trade era, but it contains thoughts that apply to every era.

I again congratulate you on your new rifle. :thumbsup:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Congratulations Hanshi. This rifle is a beauty! I really like the work of Matt Avance. TVM puts out a high quality product. I envy you the fun you will have with it. :hatsoff:

Why is it a beauty? Why do you like the work of Matt? What exactly makes this a high quality product?

 

[stormcrow]

Since HC/PC wasn't a priority, if the gun is built well, shoots well and is exactly what the buyer wanted in his purchase then is it not by definition a "quality" gun? Not sure based on the photos how you could conclude otherwise.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Since HC/PC wasn't a priority, if the gun is built well, shoots well and is exactly what the buyer wanted in his purchase then is it not by definition a "quality" gun? Not sure based on the photos how you could conclude otherwise.

Who said anything about this not being a quality gun? I have handled quite a few TVM/Matt Advance guns and they appear to be well assembled from quality parts. They are just as I said....generic. As far as HC/PC? Hanshi himself broached that subject when he stated that based on his research the gun was so. As a student of the longrifle, I adamently dissagree.

Now, to the other poster: I was not trying to be snobbish and I don't believe MB was trying to either. He and I are just trying to open a dialog about what makes a fine American longrifle. As far as spending a ton of money on a gun, the most I have ever spent on a longrifle was $1850....I would venture to say that is not much more than Hanshi spent and mine was built by David Dodds and is correct and a fine longrifle. Again, not being snobish just making the point that you don't have to spend a fortune to own a HC/PC gun. There are many builders whose names are not yet know who will build you a correct gun for the money that TVM is charging....it's your choice.

Hanshi posted this gun and invited comment so why should those who not agree that it is what he portrays it to be be chastised as snobish or any other derogatory name for matter? Enjoy, J.D.

And where the heck is the spell check button?!?!

 

[roundball]

"...we can't have a single thread without their sour condescension..."

The site you linked is a good one for sure...honesty and reality...who'd a thunk it.
:bow:

In addition, your assessment of the situation here on the MLF is spot on...and it reminded me of this section from an Internet Forum Guide floating around on the Internet the past few years:
==============================================

Internet trolls

”¢ Trolls don’t initiate positive posts or make positive contributions to threads;
Ӣ Trolls suffer from narcissism and megalomania;
Ӣ Trolls are incapable of rational adult conversations;
Ӣ Trolls are inconsiderate, unprofessional, with no interest in logical discussions;
Ӣ Trolls are not interested in others opinions, only forcing their opinions on others;
Ӣ Trolls instigate controversy to get people to talk to them;
Ӣ Trolls are arrogant, caustic and disruptive;
Ӣ Troll behavior is best handled by ignoring them completely;

 

[jdkerstetter]

Roundball,

Now who is dishing out the "sour condisention"?

Since your post seems directed at me I have to ask, is it the case that since I am new here I must be a "troll" and my opinion counts for naught? You guys sure hava a strange way to make a fellow MZ enthusist feel welcome.

As is often the case when attempting to communicate in the written word it is difficult ot sense the emotion of the poster. Lacking the tone of voice and body language it is often missinterpreted. Offense is often taken when none was intended. I have thick skin. Those who don't perhaps shouldn't participate or fealings may be hurt. Anyway.....

Hanshi: If you are happy with it that is all that really matters and I am sure it will serve him well. After actually reading the OP I will offer you an appology. I see you offered this rifle up for "vetting" and not critique. Apparently I got caught up and missinterpretted the tone of the thread. The only one who you offered to "go at it" was Mr. Brooks and I over stepped. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[rabjr]

God forbid someone should try to teach anyone something around here. Unfortunately J.D the majority don't seem to want to hear it...

 

[jdkerstetter]

God forbid someone should try to teach anyone something around here. Unfortunately J.D the majority don't seem to want to hear it...

.....nor was it invited.....I digress. J.D.

Somebody please tell me there is a spell check on this forum....looking....looking.....

 

[hanshi]

Roundball, your point was proven by that answering post. Rb, you da' man.

Most 16th & 19th century guns WERE GENERIC! They differed from builder to builder, some of whom remain anonymous. "Lancaster County" style means a STYLE and not a specific rifle. These builders didn't copy each other and many didn't even know each other. Just because a rifle doesn't replicate a particular rifle doesn't make it non HC/PC. I didn't want a replica; I simply wanted an EL. I notice the "nay sayers" usually praise rifles by others even though they are described as sorta Beck or sorta something else.

The fact is one cannot even tell about craftsmanship of a gun by looking at dark pictures. All of what is "wrong" with the gun is just in the head of the jealous. Many of our so called "experts" on this forum couldn't tell poorly made from masterful if it bit them in the, well, you know.

A few on this forum who claim divinity are, in fact, woefully ignorant when it comes to knowing about 18th century guns. You've seen only a tiny fraction of what was built and most of that was in, guess what, pictures. I don't know about yours but mine was hand built from scratch.

I'm not saying hold your tongue as all comments are welcome, even the preposterous ones. If an "expert" from the forum were to actually examine my rifle; he would not be able to point out any valid divergence from the norm. I'd just like the self styled "experts" to understand their weaknesses and realize that they really can't be royalty. Thank you. :v

 

[jdkerstetter]

Hanshi, If you think my apology was a result of anything in RB's post you are mistaken. It was genuine.

I can't tell as you and he are not being blunt. I try to leave everything on the table so that my intended point is clear. Perhaps that is not the norm here.

I don't know you or RB and was not trying to pass judgement on any individual person here....just overstepped and made an unsolicited critique of a rifle.

I have more to add on the subject but I am willing to let it go. And :v to you as well. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Hey, don't knock me over the head! :haha: I didn't say anything bad about your gun and even told you specifically what I liked about it, which is more than you got from the usual TVM cheerleaders. :thumbsup:

 

[lonehorseman]

Very Nice, Hanshi!

I've been following the arguments all week; this builder is better than that builder etc...etc...

I daresay your new rifle is as nice as most any rifle in anyone's closet or safe. At the end of the day, YOU got exactly what YOU wanted. There are few moments in life when the same can be said about anything.

Burn lots of powder and enjoy!

 

[Number19]

...The rest is pure TVM. If you like that style it's a real gem.

Educate me. What are a few things which identifies a rifle as made by TVM? Without actually handling the rifles - looking only at photos - to my eye, Matt's architecture very closely resembles several rifles I find in my reference books. What do I zero in on to see the differences?