Here She is

[jdkerstetter]

:hmm: :stir: Don't do it Mike!!! :nono: It's a trap!!! :surrender: ff :rotf:

 

[Number19]

:hmm: :stir: Don't do it Mike!!! :nono: It's a trap!!! :surrender: ff :rotf:

No it's not. I'm new to ML'ers and have been studying up on it for a year now. You made one comment about the wood being left heavy. Taking a look at the rifle from this perspective allowed me to see that the wood in the wrist area is a little robust. I still don't understand what you meant by the hardware being heavy. When I ask for clarification, I'm doing precisely that.

(edit) A classic failure of the old rifles are stocks broken at the wrist. Swinging the rifle as a club in close combat with hostiles, a thick wrist may prove to be an advantage. Down here in Texas, there is a famous painting of the Battle of the Alamo, with Crockett swinging his rifle at the attackers - the stock broken away at the wrist.

 

[hanshi]

This has been fun, guys, but it's time to close up shop. We don't want to keep :dead:. :v :v

 

[jdkerstetter]

:hmm: OK, I believe you. :grin: There is a 5 page thread going over in "flintlock rifles" http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/268790/ ....but I see you already know about it. You may best be served by posting your questions there.....not here. :nono: ff Enjoy, J.D.

 

[kodiakmarine]

It is a beauty because it is well put together and well finished from quality components, i.e. nice grade of curly maple, Rice barrel, and Chambers lock. I like the work of Matt Avance because he puts this within the financial reach of most shooters. I also like the fact that someone who has proven to be a good ML cyber pal with more than usual knowledge and good suggestions has gotten the rifle he wanted. Reason enough?

 

Mike, as for what others like about it, well, either read their posts of ask them.

Instead of "she's a real beauty" or "real nice" or "I bet she shoots as good as she looks" I was looking for a more in depth explanation of "she's a real beauty" or "real nice" or "I bet she shoots as good as she looks". Something more than just superficial positive comments. What makes her a "real beauty". Something more like in depth thought instead of rote positive compliment.
Looking for an explanation of what makes this a great gun. Can anybody explain? :idunno: Look at my post on what I liked about it..... Possibly a lesson provoking deep thinking.....perhaps a lost cause.

Beauty is defineatley in eye of the beholder. Not to take sides, I own 2 of Matt's rifles and both of them are excellent shooters and I have had them out many times and I'm always pleased with how they handle. I've also recommended Matt (as well as others) who are looking for well made rifles. But if you look at my Early Lancaster and my Virginia, there's not a whole lot of difference in the basic style. Which I think, and I could be wrong here, is what Mike meant by "typical TVM".

Having 2, I can usually spot one right away on the dealers tables usually for two reasons. A thick wrist and too much wood on the forestock. I'm not saying that's good or bad. That's how Matt makes his rifles. The first time I handled an original rifle, I was amazed at the "lack of wood" along the forestock and the dainty wrist.

I'm not HC/PC and there's no question that Matt makes a mighty shooting rifle. He just has his own style that some like and some don't.

I don't compete, nore do I re-enact. I shoot and I hunt. For my purposes, Beauty to me could be a lock, barrel and trigger inletted into a 2x4 that puts meat on the table.

 

[kodiakmarine]

I would also add that Matt Avance sells kits for his guns that have a lot more work already done than most. He says he leaves a lot of wood on the forestock to give builders more freedom to shape that area. I believe it to be an option well worth considering.

 

[Mike Brooks]

(edit) A classic failure of the old rifles are stocks broken at the wrist. Swinging the rifle as a club in close combat with hostiles, a thick wrist may prove to be an advantage. Down here in Texas, there is a famous painting of the Battle of the Alamo, with Crockett swinging his rifle at the attackers - the stock broken away at the wrist.

A broken wrist reflects grain structure in the wrist. Proper lay out of the pattern on the blank can avoid a broken wrist. When I buy blanks I go down the row lifting them up. If they are heavy they are a candidate for purchase. The second thing I look at is grain flow through the wrist. If the grain is course through the wrist it doesn't go home with me.

 

[rkmeyer]

Use your new toy in good health! :thumbsup:
It's a beauty!!!
Dusty :wink:

 

[Mike Brooks]

:hmm: :stir: Don't do it Mike!!! :nono: It's a trap!!! :surrender: ff :rotf:

I'm taking your advice. :thumbsup: The people who own these guns don't want to hear what I have to say about them anyway. They go bang and have pretty wood, what more could a guy want. :wink:

 

[Capt. Jas.]

.... did some research .........It is likely close to 100% (real close, anyway) HC/PC.

Hanshi,

I have already made post of congratulations on your new gun but just saw the above comment and wanted to know if you could expound. Honestly no trap here. I would just like to know exactly what those who do not make a practice to study the history of these guns see when they do a little research for the pc/hc aspect. In other words, what exactly are you using as criteria to make the call?
This fascinates me as I see things today that I never noticed a few years ago and I am amazed at how oblivious I was 10 years ago. Mind you,even back then I was aware of good inletting, etc.

James

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Its not gonna happen, these guys cannot see anything past the purty wood, architecture is nothing more than good inletting and quality components.

There really is nothing more.

 

[preston cook]

if someone posted a picture of a Jud Brennen rifle i doubt 80% of the forum"experts" would know the difference in it and an avance rifle :idunno:

 

[Mike Brooks]

if someone posted a picture of a Jud Brennen rifle i doubt 80% of the forum"experts" would know the difference in it and an avance rifle :idunno:

Most would probably choose the TVM....

 

[jdkerstetter]

if someone posted a picture of a Jud Brennen rifle i doubt 80% of the forum"experts" would know the difference in it and an avance rifle :idunno:

I fail to see how comments like these contribute to the conversation on the subject gun.

But then again, it appears we are not here to have a conversation but only to praise the gun or catch h**l for not doing so.

Are personal attacks the norm on this board? Perhaps it is and that's why some don't post their real names.

It's easy cast stones hiding behind monikers. J.D.

 

[preston cook]

my name is Preston cook and i never made an attack on anyone you seem to be looking for trouble or to get this thread locked down :shake: ?

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I wouldn't know a Jud Brennen, from a Mike Brooks, from a House rifle, at a glance.

But I do know what architecture is and how it applies to the American Longrifle, at a glance it is either correct or not.

Doesn't take a genius, you just need to want to see the trees thru the forest.

 

[George]

I have a question for Mike Brooks, Swampy, J.D. and anyone else who has expressed negative opinions about TVM. I've been on this board for only a little over a year, and in that short time I've seen most of the "semi-custom" production companies I know of subjected to this same treatment. Narragansett Arms, Jackie Brown, Caywood Gunbuilders, both TVMs, Jack Garner... and it seems there were others... have all been trashed at one time or another.

Is there even one company of this type which builds guns acceptable to you? Has there ever been? Can there ever be?

Spence

 

[Mike Brooks]

It's the cutting of corners using mass production techniques that dooms these companies to not reach the higher standards of the more educated student of the american longrifle. It's all about the money, cut corners to produce more guns and sacrifice historic authenticity. Some of these companies haven't done their home work either, they just don't know any better or worse yet don't care as long as they can make the $ quick.
That's about it really. :idunno:

 

[jdkerstetter]

Again, I didn't say anything negative about TVM, Matt Avance or anyone. I merely gave a brief, unsolicated critique of a gun. :surrender:

TVM builds a quality product that obviously has a place in the market or they wouldn't sell so many guns. They just are't custom HC/PC guns and they don't make any claims to be....look at their site. They make representative pieces.

my name is Preston cook and i never made an attack on anyone you seem to be looking for trouble or to get this thread locked down :shake: ?

Nice to meet you Preston. :hatsoff:

I'm not looking for trouble.....but prior to your post anybody who disagreed was sarcastically labeled an "expert" and it appears as though it is a trend here.

Now I know that discussion was not the purpose of this post...it was just to congratulate Hanshi and I have adressed that.

I don't get it. How are we to learn if we don't have open lines of discussion?

Please clarify your last post so that we can understand your intent and how it pertains to the subject at hand. Thanks, J.D.