Historic definition of "Swan Shot"

[George]

Here are some items I posted in an earlier discussion:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...78/post/1406848/hl/swan/fromsearch/1/#1406848

Spence

 

[coloradoclyde]

My files are unavailable at the moment, when I get them again, maybe I'll post specifics. Not sure it's worth the effort, though, I've been posting it since 1996, with little effect. The ongoing, decades old argument about the shape of swan shot is a perfect example of the fact that once bad information gets into the belief system of some people, the Pope couldn't exorcise it, it's immune to evidence.

Don't give up!
Planting a tree is always worth the effort....even if it bears no fruit. :grin:

 

[coloradoclyde]

The plot thickens...... http://www.pssatrap.org/shot-towers-2/shot-towers-page-1.htm

 

[coloradoclyde]

If you read that article then.....

You can see that prior to 1785 large swan sized shot would have likely been cast rather than dropped, and after that period the use of shot towers removed the tails. shot towers grew quite rapidly in popularity.
So prior to the development of a shot tower shot was either cast or had tails depending on size.

So the real question is about sized and when it was made, rather than "tails".

 

[satx78247]

Swan Shot was, at least after TWBTS-era, #1 or #2 lead shot.
(Swans were popular game-birds in the pre-1917 era, were considered "good eating" then & they "take some considerable killing".)

Given how many places that swans are NOW "environmental pests", perhaps we should popularize their hunting again.

yours, satx

 

[coloradoclyde]

Always considered that Goose shot.. :haha:
But now you're getting into the cartridge era.

 

[satx78247]

I'm NOT sure that goose shot & swan shot were really different sizes.= Both were .20-.25 inch diameter in the 19th century.

Btw, THE LOWREY, a 1.5" bore punt-gun (Owned for 6 or more decades by the ENOS LOWREY family of Easton MD after 1840), was reportedly loaded with "3 hands full of powder & 3 hands full of swan shot".
(I've NO idea how much a "hand full" was but it was a "pretty good amount".)

yours, satx

 

[George]

So prior to the development of a shot tower shot was either cast or had tails depending on size.

Unfortunately, nothing is ever as simple and straightforward as we would like.

William Cleator, An Essay on Shooting, 1789:

"*The patent milled shot is said to be made in the following manner. Sheets of lead, whose thickness corresponds with the size of the shot required, are cut into square stripes by a machine, and thus again into small pieces that are cubes; or of the form of a die. A great quantity of these little cubes are put into a large hollow iron cylinder, which is mounted horizontally and turned by a winch; when by their friction against one another and against the sides of the cylinder, they are rendered perfectly round and very smooth."

He didn't say "no tails", but I doubt there were any.

Spence

 

[coloradoclyde]

#1 and #2 lead are a far cry from .20-.25 :haha:

 

[coloradoclyde]

I love it Spence...... :hatsoff:

 

[satx78247]

According to the measurements at the Old Washington, AR museum's records, that was the "size" way back then. = LOTS of things changed in the 20th Century.

yours, satx

 

[coloradoclyde]

Museums mislabel stuff all the time....Free help you know.... :haha:

 

[Capt. Jas.]

In F&I period Bedford Co, VA, the militia preferred goose shot to the single ball projectile for Indian engagements.

 

[Artificer]

Spence,

Please don't give up, there are most likely a good number of us who REALLY appreciate the documentation you bring to the forum.

For everyone,

Newspapers were the only "Mass Media" for advertising in the 18th century. Advertising in them was not cheap by any means, though with the differences in what items in daily life cost back then, I doubt there is a good way to compare advertising costs then to now. However, outside the common type of ending an ad with something like "for the best prices," they did not spend the money to "wax poetic" on the items advertised.

What this tells us is that their customers knew what they were advertising by just naming the items offered for sale. Also, advertisers listed the things that both drew customers into the stores and cost enough to make it financially worthwhile to specifically mention those things in the ads. So if Swan Shot or Swan Shot molds were not terms well known to their customers and the general public at large (and also desired enough by customers), the advertisers would not have mentioned them so often.

Gus

 

[coloradoclyde]

Whenever I start to get bored or disinterested with the history Spence pulls out a Pennsylvania gazette ad or some other period reference and "blows my mind"....
It makes me a better person...less of a troll...

 

[satx78247]

In other words, you believe that published data in period documents is usually "questionable"??

Absent actual proof of data being "of questionable truthfulness", I generally believe that publishers then were truthful & at least as accurate as our so-called "modern experts" are.

just my OPINION, satx

 

[coloradoclyde]

:shocked2: You read way more into that, than was intended..... :shake:

 

[TNGhost]

Museums mislabel stuff all the time....Free help you know.... :haha:

Such ambiguity also prevents the possibility of you being correct. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Artificer]

In F&I period Bedford Co, VA, the militia preferred goose shot to the single ball projectile for Indian engagements.

Do you have any more information on that or the source it came from? Do you know if they used this for the first round and then went to ball or did they perhaps make cartridges with shot instead of balls?

I am particularly fascinated by this quote both historically and as early in my modern Marine career, Double Aught Buck Shot saved my hide on more than one occasion in close action.

Gus

 

[satx78247]

Mine TOO. = More than once when I was "way down South", it was my Ithaca Model 37 Featherweight 8-shot that kept "my tender & fragile bod" unventilated.

yours, satx