History of LARGE bore flintlocks?

[BRUN]

Hi Guys,

I have an 8 bore Jaeger on its way to me and I want to know where and when if ever where these used? I know Africa of course but what time period? If I am going to get this on a show I want to make sure I have some answers in case I am asked the question.

Thanks for any help in my research!

Billy

Dont take this wrong.Are you doing a show in the U.S.?Why not use a gun that is a little smaller so people watching wont think that you need a traditional muzzle loader that big to kill game.Im not saying I wouldnt want to see it but I think a 54-62 cal would get more folks watching the show into traditional muzzle loading.The choice is yours but if I wasnt a muzzle loader hunter watching the show I would wonder if I could shoot a big gun like that and if I afford it.Im just wondering why such a big gun?

 

[BRUN]

BTW.What are you hunting?

 

[Stophel]

Wild asparagus.

 

[BRUN]

 

[BRUN]

I did a search.Feral hogs.Seems like an awfull big gun for a pig. :v

 

[Dphar]

Hi Guys,

I have an 8 bore Jaeger on its way to me and I want to know where and when if ever where these used? I know Africa of course but what time period? If I am going to get this on a show I want to make sure I have some answers in case I am asked the question.

Thanks for any help in my research!

Billy

Dont take this wrong.Are you doing a show in the U.S.?Why not use a gun that is a little smaller so people watching wont think that you need a traditional muzzle loader that big to kill game.Im not saying I wouldnt want to see it but I think a 54-62 cal would get more folks watching the show into traditional muzzle loading.The choice is yours but if I wasnt a muzzle loader hunter watching the show I would wonder if I could shoot a big gun like that and if I afford it.Im just wondering why such a big gun?

Depends on the hogs he is hunting.
Some are large, very bad tempered when wounded and if they get you down will turn your guts into confetti.
Forsythe stated that the 16 bore was considered minimum for dangerous game. Energy wise a 16 bore is about like a 45 caliber Sharps with a 420 grain bullet and 90 or so gr of powder. The 12 bore is near the heavy bullet loading for the 45-100 or a little more. Both these examples are ENERGY comparisons. The larger bore RBs are better killers of game than small diameter bullets of teh same weight at BP velocities.
The 8 bore is far more powerful than a 16 and is a very capable elephant gun. But it must shoot an adequate charge of powder something over 200 grains to give decent velocity and probably 300.
Its over kill for hogs IMO but we must remember that big wild boar have a layer of cartilage that that runs back over the shoulder that a man who guides hog hunters told me will prevent a 12 gauge slug from penetrating. So one much pick a rifle that will do the job. A 54 is just dandy for small stuff but for wild bore of any size I would want a 16 ga rifle.
Depending on the species well hardened balls are a very good idea.
I would rather a hunter who is going to be on screen have a rifle that will put the hog down in no uncertain terms than to have it not fall down dead in a resonable time frame.
Shot palcement is another problem with heavy calibers. Most elephant shooting was and ofen is done under 20 yards.

Dan

 

[Mike Brooks]

Shot palcement is another problem with heavy calibers. Most elephant shooting was and ofen is done under 20 yards.

Because of innacuraccy issues or the fact that the shooter develops an incredibble flinch shooting these large bored rifles?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Dan: I don't know who has been giving you anatomy lessons on Wild Boar, but all a boar has is the same thing any mammal has, and that is a shoulder blade covering his ribs along side his shoulders. I have killed 2 wild boar, one with a .50 round ball, and the other with a 170 grain .30 cal. bullet out of a .30-30. The jacketed soft point did mushroom when it hit that 3/8 inch thick shoulder blade, and it did turn, but only after it had broken a rib on the other side, and gone through both lungs, and some of the major arteries above the heart! I don't know what that guide let his slug gun shooters use for slugs, but any foster style slug will penetrate the shoulderblade and reach the internal organs out of a 12. ga.

My best friend killed a wild boar with a .62 cal. ( 20 ga. ) rifle with a frontal shot, that sent a PRB all the way the length of the boar, where it lodged under the skin after completely penetrating the large " ham " leg muscle on the other side. He took out one lung, the top of the heart, the liver, kidneys, intestines, etc. before penetrating the ham. I think he was using 90 grains of FFg powder behind that PRB.

If you take head shots, you kill the pig with much smaller rounds to the brain. just don't aim at the centerline of the skull, and you will be okay.( a centerline hit will knock them out, and down, but just may not kill them. There is a lot of skull between the center of the eyes, and the brain.)

 

Thank you for the info guys, one thing I think guys forget is these rifles are HEAVY. This one tips the scale at about 14.5 lbs. That's a heavy rifle, add a mercury recoil reducer and I have a feeling it will be very manageable at 200 grains.

I will post my honest opinion once it gets here and I take a few shots through it.

Jaegers are my favorite style rifle. I need to save my pennies and get me one in .62 next.

Thanks again for all the info. This hog hunt is a go, flights are booked and we are going! I'm hoping a gun this big laying the smack down in a big way will get the attention of a TV show and it will get some good coverage for traditional muzzleloading. I'll be using round ball.

Thanks guys,

Billy

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Have you checked to be sure the 8 bore is legal to hunt with? Some states draw the line at 10 gauge for use as a hunting gun.

 

[faw3]

In answer to your first "Q" at top of page, Muzz - Blast ran a few years of jaeger rifles it took me awhile to find the 2nd biggst I belive they ran Jan of 93 (get from NMLRA back iss for 1.50) Its a 93 cal long barrel 30". (made some time in 1709 to 1716) The other was over a 1" cal by about 3/100 th if I remember right. As Mike Brooks said on another subject here they are a twist to barrel length,and dont need a lot of powder to bring down whatever they hunted in Germany ect with these. Really some nice rifles over the 2 yrs or so they ran them. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Dphar]

Dan: I don't know who has been giving you anatomy lessons on Wild Boar, but all a boar has is the same thing any mammal has, and that is a shoulder blade covering his ribs along side his shoulders. I have killed 2 wild boar, one with a .50 round ball, and the other with a 170 grain .30 cal. bullet out of a .30-30. The jacketed soft point did mushroom when it hit that 3/8 inch thick shoulder blade, and it did turn, but only after it had broken a rib on the other side, and gone through both lungs, and some of the major arteries above the heart! I don't know what that guide let his slug gun shooters use for slugs, but any foster style slug will penetrate the shoulderblade and reach the internal organs out of a 12. ga.

My best friend killed a wild boar with a .62 cal. ( 20 ga. ) rifle with a frontal shot, that sent a PRB all the way the length of the boar, where it lodged under the skin after completely penetrating the large " ham " leg muscle on the other side. He took out one lung, the top of the heart, the liver, kidneys, intestines, etc. before penetrating the ham. I think he was using 90 grains of FFg powder behind that PRB.

If you take head shots, you kill the pig with much smaller rounds to the brain. just don't aim at the centerline of the skull, and you will be okay.( a centerline hit will knock them out, and down, but just may not kill them. There is a lot of skull between the center of the eyes, and the brain.)

I have this from several sources.
But have no personal experience.
The guide works/worked in Texas.
Your post did lead me to this site..
[url] http://www.texasboars.com/anatomy.html[/url]

Which is enlightening both as to the presence of the "shield" and its resistance to bullets. As in many things the truth appears to be somewhere in the middle.
While not a wild boar this site has an interesting story.[url] http://www.gon.com/article.php?id=1017&cid=158[/url]
Unlike "hogzilla" this one is pretty well documented.

Dan

 

[Mike Brooks]

Understanding the use you plan for this gun, especially since you hope to attract some media attention, I would hope you understand and state in any interview, an 8 bore German hunting rifle is very untypical, most likely rare as hens teeth.
A .62 would be more the norm and kill a boar just as dead.

 

[PvtC]

There was an article in Blackpowder Hunting magazine years ago. I recall that Jim Gefroh built a 4 bore sidelock percussion and an 8 bore flintlock for a Rhino hunt. My recollection is that even with such formidable ordnance they had to shoot it at least 3 times to put it down. Loads were big patched round balls with powder charges in excess of 200 grains. :shocked2:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Good pictures of the anatomy. The shoulder blade is thick, but its no bigger than the shoulder blade on any other mammal. The heart and lung area is low, as in a deer, and not like a bear. It is also pretty small, as evidenced by the young man's hand size in comparison. Notice also how low the centerline of the spine is from the top of the shoulders and back.

 

[jbg]

Frederick Selous, one of the most famous elephant hunters of the Dark Continent carried a 4 bore muzzleloading rifle in the beginning of his career ( he had a nice double rifle, but that was stolen and the 4 bore was all he could afford to replace it with). He carried his powder in a leather bag slung over his shoulder, and measured the charge for the rifle by the handful.
Oh, what a time that must have been!

 

Heck no, I'm gonna tell them this is just what old Davy Crockett used when he first got to Texas!

I'm kiddin, I'm going to joke around and say I heard they do things big in Texas so I came prepared with an elephant rifle.

Gonna be a lot of fun and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Thanks again guys.

Billy

 

[Todd Rickard]

Gentelmen, I used to raise purebred Russian wild boar. Indeed, a large mature boar has a plate of cartalidge over the vitals of the chest. The cartalidge is tough enough to resist a knife point. I doubt it would stop a 12 bore slug, unless it was shot at an accute angle.
The plate is to protect the boar when two of the brutes spar over sows. The boars stand shoulder to shoulder and root and rake their opponent with tusks that can be as sharp as knives, all the while, spinning around and around. An observer can hear the tusks rip through hair and hide, but I have never seen a boar seriously cut in that area. By comparison, Ive seen a wound on a person's upper thigh from a boar that charged by... it was four inches long and as clean as a scalpel cut... through jeans! Boars rarely stand and fight a human, prefering to charge right through and run off.
I do remember an artical from about 20 years ago about hunting Africa with a 4ga Rawbone (double?) rifle. I believe it was Paradox rifled.
In case some haven't thought about it, a four ga. ball that fit the bore would weigh 1/4lb!

 

[Stophel]

A quarter pound!?!? Why that's as big as a hamburger!!!

 

[JohnTheGreek]

Billy,

VERY nice rifle you have there! Below is a photo of the percussion 8-bore that Jim made for me about a year ago. Very plain compared to yours but she shoots like a champ. You're sure gonna love shooting your new rifle I can tell you that. Seriously, 200 grains of powder is a quite pleasant plinking load with noticably less recoil than my .416 Rem mag. I really only load the full 10 drams (273 grains) in my Gefroh rifle when I am planning on hunting something. As for the question of the 8-bore being too much for a big Texas hog? How many Germanic swine do you figure fell in the 18th and 19th centuries to .70+ calibre Jaegers? I'd bet quite a few so I personally think your weapon is very historically appropriate. Enjoy your hunt and enjoy your new weapon....she's one to pass on to your kids and grandkids.

Best,

John