I wrap the large end of the worm around the brass ferrule on the rod. I’m not as confident of its hold on the hickory end.
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History of the patch
- Thread starter megasupermagnum
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troy2000
45 Cal.
If it's common knowledge, why should he bother looking up a historical source for you? Google is your friend...
megasupermagnum
45 Cal.
Nobody has to link a website if they don't want to, I'm more than happy to do the leg work, but they do have to site where they learned it from. We are talking about things well over 200 years old. "common knowledge" is an an acceptable answer. If you can't site a source you learned it from, then it does not belong in this thread. Google only gets you so far when what I'm looking for is minor details from 200+ year old writings.
megasupermagnum
45 Cal.
What holds that onto the rod? Only friction? What happens when it falls off inside the barrel?
It hasn’t yet. Once I was wiping the bore was really fouled and the rod got stuck. I chucked the gun in a vise and pulled the rod out with vise grips the worm and tow were still attached.
megasupermagnum
45 Cal.
Wow, and only friction holds it on? Does it at least spiral opposite of the rifling?
troy2000
45 Cal.
I know all sorts of things I can't cite a site for, because I didn't learn them online: I happen to be a lot older than the internet. That doesn't make me wrong or irrelevant, and I have no big yen to go looking for online sources to back up what I know.
Maybe I misread the tone of your posts, but it seemed to me you were being a bit demanding with your requests for historical sources. If you're looking for definitive scholarly research with footnotes, instead of a friendly discussion where people share what they know to the best of their knowledge, you may be in the wrong forum.
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Yes just friction.
That’s an interesting question. I’m a smoothbore guy so I can’t answer. Maybe one of these guys can.
troy2000
45 Cal.
My worm came as part of a cheap universal kit of rod tips. It's threaded for my rod end, and just has a couple of prongs sticking out with about a half twist on them. But the couple of times I've used it to retrieve lost cleaning patches, it worked. One time I did have to put some serious pressure on the rod while I twisted it, and it took a couple of tries.
megasupermagnum
45 Cal.
I'll take friendly discussion, but I started this thread looking for actual documents. It isn't that what you know is wrong, but while older than the internet, you were not around, and did not know anyone who lived through the time period I'm researching. I suppose I am a bit demanding, but I'm not looking for conjecture.
See my other thread if you would like to share thoughts on muzzle loading. I'm beginning to think going full PC (period correct) is as much of a headache as going PC (politically correct).
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The tapered ones, made to match tapered rear ends of wood ramrods were held in place by friction, though one has to turn them in the direction they tighten onto the rod, when retrieving the normally tow or a small piece cloth tied to them all the way out of the barrel. IF one didn't turn it correctly and it unscrewed in the barrel, you stick the ramrod back in and turn it so it correctly screws onto the rod.
If all else failed, I imagine they may have pushed it and the tow or cloth to the breech, put a few grains of black powder into the barrel from the touchhole and blew it out the front end. However, this is only informed speculation on my part.
Gus
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Same time period with the British Baker Flintlock Rifle, they issued full size balls with patches sewn around the balls, then lubricated the patches before they were issued. Troops in the field seemed to have just wrapped the balls and may or may not have sewn them around the balls.
Baker Rifle Ammo was also used with paper patched balls in paper cartridges. The paper patching did the same thing as cloth or leather patches, to engage the rifling and spin the ball as it went down the barrel.
Gus
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with the HICORY end of my wiper it has a greater bite with the wood than the hard shinny brass / metal end.
It mine. Too thin. The worm screws down too far to hold much tow.
Is that how they spell Hickory where you’re from?
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Forum Member Spence stopped that by making or buying a coil spring worm closer to the diameter of the rod and then filing some threads into the rod. Thus the coils can only go so far onto the rod in those threads.
Gus
Just FYI...I used a triangle file (thin edge) to make a spiral groove on the end of one of my ramrods to better grip and hold the wire worm. I turned the end of the rod into the worm, which left a spiral mark, then removed it and applied the file to the mark, and kept this up until about 2/3rds was "threading" onto the end of the rod. Only takes a few minutes
LD
I have found when I’ve turned them on and used them it’s not easy to turn them back off. I have a worm from Calahands’s’ Bag Molds for my rifles as the wire ones are too big on the fat end. And even cut down 5/16 end tip plus wire thickness is still too thick to use.
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Do you sharpen the tip of the coil that is supposed to spear the patch or tow that fell off?
The reason I ask is because in many years of reenacting, I found MOST people did not know the ends of worms are to be kept sharp or they don't work well. Story on that to follow.
Gus
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Brer Toot might not be much of a speller but the hickory remark seemed unkind. .Fileing threads into a brass tip that probably has a threaded hole seems curious but what ever grabs you .
Rudyard
Rudyard
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One year at "The Battle that never happened in honor of George Washington's Birthday" held at Fort Ward, VA, we were forming up while it went from cloudy to snow to back to cloudy and eventually the sun came out for the reenactment.
A very good friend and comrade of mine in the Major's Coy, 42nd Royal Highland Regiment, the Black Watch was extremely and uncharacteristically late getting to the formation. Since both of us were retired Senior Marine SNCO's, we were normally the first to assemble. When he finally rushed up just a few minutes before we had to march out, he urgently asked if I had my worm with me as he had a stuck cleaning patch in the breech of his Brown Bess. (He wanted to run a patch down his bore one last time before coming to formation, to ensure his musket would work properly.) Uncharacteristically, I didn't have my worm with me.
Though he was one of the few reenactors who knew and kept the tips of his worm sharp, the patch seemed to have a will of it's own to avoid being speared or snagged by the Worm tips, as the diameter of his worm proved just a bit too small. While he caught his breath, I was trying to think of another way to get the patch out. Then something dawned on me that might work. I suggested I hold his musket while sticking my sharpened Vent Pick into the Vent, while he turned the Steel Rammer to spear the patch. It didn't work the first time as I did not stick my pick well enough into the patch. So the next time, I had him move the worm until there was more of the patch I could stick my pick in. That kept the patch from moving and gave just enough resistance that he was able to spear the patch with his worm and pull the patch out of his bore.
Needless to say we both were extremely relieved it worked. I looked at him and grinned and said, "I'm VERY glad most of the others haven't seen we too old Jarheads fumbling so much with a musket to get it to serviceable operating condition." LOL!
Gus
A very good friend and comrade of mine in the Major's Coy, 42nd Royal Highland Regiment, the Black Watch was extremely and uncharacteristically late getting to the formation. Since both of us were retired Senior Marine SNCO's, we were normally the first to assemble. When he finally rushed up just a few minutes before we had to march out, he urgently asked if I had my worm with me as he had a stuck cleaning patch in the breech of his Brown Bess. (He wanted to run a patch down his bore one last time before coming to formation, to ensure his musket would work properly.) Uncharacteristically, I didn't have my worm with me.
Though he was one of the few reenactors who knew and kept the tips of his worm sharp, the patch seemed to have a will of it's own to avoid being speared or snagged by the Worm tips, as the diameter of his worm proved just a bit too small. While he caught his breath, I was trying to think of another way to get the patch out. Then something dawned on me that might work. I suggested I hold his musket while sticking my sharpened Vent Pick into the Vent, while he turned the Steel Rammer to spear the patch. It didn't work the first time as I did not stick my pick well enough into the patch. So the next time, I had him move the worm until there was more of the patch I could stick my pick in. That kept the patch from moving and gave just enough resistance that he was able to spear the patch with his worm and pull the patch out of his bore.
Needless to say we both were extremely relieved it worked. I looked at him and grinned and said, "I'm VERY glad most of the others haven't seen we too old Jarheads fumbling so much with a musket to get it to serviceable operating condition." LOL!
Gus
