Hoe Cake

[Red Owl]

Oka, I am not a great cook. What is the difference between hoe cake, corn dodgers, corn bread, johnny cake, cone pone,

 

[Woody Morgan]

Neighborhood.

wm

 

[ghostdncr]

I think a lot of that is regional, or "neighborhood" like Woody said. Where I grew up, we had hoe cakes and cornbread. Hoe cakes are fried and look like a cornmeal pancake, for lack of a better description. Cornbread is baked in an iron skillet and looks like a single-layer cake. Got a buddy from Tennessee who calls cornbread "pone" and that's why I figure a lot of the names are regional.

 

[user 48702]

The above are correct, regional from what I've seen too. Johnny Cakes generally do not have any leavening and Hoe Cakes generally do. In our area, my Mom and Grandmother both always called a hoe cake a skillet biscuit, it was kind of between the consistency of a biscuit and cornbread. They called cornbread baked in a cast iron cornbread mold, which was in the shape of ears of corn or muffins, corn pones. Molded corn pones are great for the trail as long as you have some water to wash them down. They hold together real good and will survive rough traveling, on the other hand, a slice of cornbread will just fall apart and give you a sack full of crumbs. Years ago, I bought a two volume set of the Sears and Roebuck Kenmore Cook Book, copyrighted 1939, 1940, and 1947. Inside the cover it says "The United States Regional Cook Book". These are some great old cook books with old recipes which are divided in to different areas of the country, Southern, New England, and Mid-West etc. It is a two volume hardbound set including recipes for wild game, such as Opossum and Squirrel Dumplings.

 

[tenngun]

In old days it was just corn meal salt and water. This was cooked on a hoe, in this case a flat hoe shaped griddle, not a garden hoe.
Fat could be added to make a harder cake that couldbe baked or pan roasted, as said this would hang together for travel, journey cake, that became Johnny cake.
Bread would be baked often with another grain added and milk or buttermilk would be used instead of water. Before baking powder with extra wheat flour corn breads could be made airry with frothed eggs
Corn dodgers are just a regional name

 

[Woody Morgan]

First time I heard of "corn dodgers" was watching John Wayne in True Grit.

I'm hopelessly west coast.

wm

 

[Nazgul58]

Wife makes Hoe Cakes every so often. They keep you going for awhile. Good before hunting or cutting fire wood.

Don

 

[Loyalist Dave]

According to Horace Kephart, in both Camping and Woodcraft and Camp Cookery..., circa 1906/1910

Johnny Cake is cornmeal, warm water, and salt, and is baked...,
Corn Dodgers, are the same ingredients, formed into small cylinders, browned by frying, and then baked...,
Ash Cakes, are the same but formed into round balls the size of an egg, dusted with wheat flour, then baked in the ashes of the campfire (I've seen it done without the wheat flour dusting)

Mr. Kephart also mentions a few other variations on using corn meal, but doesn't mention these two below...

I was taught that Hoecakes are the same as Johnny Cake but are cooked in a skillet on some grease...,
I was also taught that Corn Pone was the same as Johnny Cake BUT bacon grease or lard was added, and then it was baked...

Camp Cookery

LD

 

[Cornbread]

Ditto to Loyalist Dave’s reply. I can’t add anything myself.

Just to add:
Having made them all, Kephart’s notation of “warm water” is VERY important as that’s what gets the meal to release the gluten and become “glue-y”. Think of grits or cornmeal mush.
Those 3 versions are the old school version of “hush puppies” and are VERY good!!!

Great…see what you done? Now I gotta make some!

James

 

[Red Owl]

I wonder if the corn dodger is a western thing- I'm from Colorado originals and the term was pretty common, as stated they were round- like stubby hot dog in shape, and kept well without refrigeration, etc.
My wondering was more on the ingredients, I thought corn bread had all the bells and whistles, corn meal, white flour, eggs, milk, baking powder, etc. and the others, just corn meal white flour, some baking powder.
I do a lot of camping, I admit to canned beans. Fry bacon, then same pan add a hoe cake- take out and toss in beans, easy dinner.

 

[Des52]

My daughter makes the corn bread in the cast iron corn pans but uses beer instead of water. Perfect with a bowl of spicy chili. And yes I am from Wisconsin.

 

[JaeBeah]

Now I am hankering corn bread!!!

 

[Notchy Bob]

We used to have hoecake pretty often when I was growing up, here in north Florida. Both of my parents were from Alabama. Hoecake was made of cornmeal, salt and water, cooked on a flat skillet on the stovetop with a little grease. A buddy of mine, just a few years older than I, recently told me that the field hands on his family farm actually cooked hoecakes on their hoes, which were abraded clean and bright by the sandy soil. This would have been in the 1950's.

The light, fluffy "cornbread" we see all the time now is closer to what my folks called "egg bread." I don't think anybody I knew growing up ever put sugar in any kind of corn bread, though. Ever. People now want everything sweet.

I never heard the term "Johnny cake" applied to anything we had, but I did read about "Johnny cakes" being made in colonial times.

Corn pones were also made of just cornmeal, salt, and water, but were made thicker than hoecake. They were also cooked on a stovetop but in a deeper skillet, with more and deeper grease. They were essentially fried. Old-time corn pone is really good.

I don't know the etymology of "pone" for certain, but I did learn many years ago that a-pon is an Algonkin term for at least one type of corn bread. Coincidentally, I believe pan is the Spanish term for "bread."

Dang... Now I want some.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[user 48702]

On occasion, my grandmother would make cornbread sticks shaped like an ear of corn in a cast iron mold, but she added an extra touch. She would fry up some cracklings and then mix them into the cornbread mix, these were definitely worth fighting for over the everyday cornbread sticks. All the folks in our area called these molded cornbread sticks "Pones". If you don't want to fool with frying up cracklings, fried crumpled bacon works pretty good too. If you really want to cheat, you can just use Hormel's ready made bacon bits. These will last for more than a couple of days unrefrigerated.

 

[ghostdncr]

The light, fluffy "cornbread" we see all the time now is closer to what my folks called "egg bread." I don't think anybody I knew growing up ever put sugar in any kind of corn bread, though. Ever. People now want everything sweet.

I wasn't going to bring this up but since Bob did...

I find sweet cornbread disgusting. Where I grew up in central and southeast Kentucky, putting sugar in any type of cornbread would've been akin to putting whipped cream on bean soup. Butter was fine if there was any available, but sugar? That's just nasty. Actually, that's more like poorly executed cake. Our cornbread was always a rough and somewhat dry concoction that complimented the flavors of whatever it was eaten with. It was getting over near hardtack territory if that's all you had for supper, but it would keep you alive for a few days if necessary. I laugh at myself over how I came to hate cornbread when young, yet am such a snob about it today.

The cornbread that was cooked in the shape of ear corn, with the cracklins or bacon crumbles in it? I had one elderly relative that made those as her main type of bread. Phenomenal stuff, right there!

 

[Notchy Bob]

On occasion, my grandmother would make cornbread sticks shaped like an ear of corn in a cast iron mold, but she added an extra touch. She would fry up some cracklings and then mix them into the cornbread mix, these were definitely worth fighting for over the everyday cornbread sticks. All the folks in our area called these molded cornbread sticks "Pones". If you don't want to fool with frying up cracklings, fried crumpled bacon works pretty good too. If you really want to cheat, you can just use Hormel's ready made bacon bits. These will last for more than a couple of days unrefrigerated.

I wasn't going to bring this up but since Bob did...

I find sweet cornbread disgusting. Where I grew up in central and southeast Kentucky, putting sugar in any type of cornbread would've been akin to putting whipped cream on bean soup. Butter was fine if there was any available, but sugar? That's just nasty. Actually, that's more like poorly executed cake. Our cornbread was always a rough and somewhat dry concoction that complimented the flavors of whatever it was eaten with. It was getting over near hardtack territory if that's all you had for supper, but it would keep you alive for a few days if necessary. I laugh at myself over how I came to hate cornbread when young, yet am such a snob about it today.

The cornbread that was cooked in the shape of ear corn, with the cracklins or bacon crumbles in it? I had one elderly relative that made those as her main type of bread. Phenomenal stuff, right there!

Now you're talking... Cracklin' cornbread, no sugar... Your foodways growing up must have been similar to mine.

Notchy Bob

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Hangry now....

 

[user 48702]

I wasn't going to bring this up but since Bob did...

I find sweet cornbread disgusting. Where I grew up in central and southeast Kentucky, putting sugar in any type of cornbread would've been akin to putting whipped cream on bean soup. Butter was fine if there was any available, but sugar? That's just nasty. Actually, that's more like poorly executed cake. Our cornbread was always a rough and somewhat dry concoction that complimented the flavors of whatever it was eaten with. It was getting over near hardtack territory if that's all you had for supper, but it would keep you alive for a few days if necessary. I laugh at myself over how I came to hate cornbread when young, yet am such a snob about it today.

The cornbread that was cooked in the shape of ear corn, with the cracklins or bacon crumbles in it? I had one elderly relative that made those as her main type of bread. Phenomenal stuff, right there!

Right there with you on sweet cornbread. That's like putting sugar in grits, a sin. I have to compromise on the sweet cornbread though, I grew up in North Central Alabama, and the wife was born in Asheville, NC, and grew up in South East Alabama. Her mom always made sweet cornbread, so we alternate. I'll say, whos turn is it, and she will say, yuck! Kind of a running joke, but on occasion I'll get a batch of Mama's cornbread. I know you can't talk about religion on this forum, but we differ there too. Been married since 87' and we have very few things that we disagree on, cornbread mostly. At least she doesn't put sugar on her grits.

 

[Okie Hog]

My favorite is fried cornmeal mush.

 

[Icemanxxxv]

I'm a no sugar corn bread guy myself. I do like to TexMex it up a bit from time to time with green chili frozen corn, pepper jack cheese and some red chili powder.