How Big ya need …to feel Safe?

[Africa58double]

Per forum rules- Centerfire cartridges
are not to be discussed. I have many like that and am discussing ….Muzzleloader rifle hunting with Defense while in Bruin territory.

I appreciate your post tho, thank you.

 

[Africa58double]

A .458 Win. mag. or one of my Westley Richards No 1 express cartridges
is not good enough. I want a partner for back up and I would still be worried.

^

 

[Christophero]

So a 45 conical with 70 gr of Black Powder is your muzzleloader suggestion for Elk hunting while Angerus-De-Fur-Humungunus is Roaming around the Mountain your hunting?

No, I have to believe that there is a better hard charging bruin stopper than the 45/70, Black Powder or otherwise. Yet, many guide swear by it, so I've read in countless publications.

It’s a .58 Pedersoli Kodiak , I also have a Big Boar T/C .58View attachment 117984View attachment 117988

Yes, that is as pretty as I expected it to be. Very nice presentation slab of Black Walnut to accentuate the piece which makes a thoughtful touch, also. Much obliged for the follow up photos to be shared. Obviously you are a man of discerning tastes.

 

[flashpoint]

Welcome to grizz country.... ....
View attachment 117994

That picture couldn't be more perfect. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

It was a good day. Wife took the photo. We just finished moving yearlings.

 

[deerstalkert]

It was a good day. Wife took the photo. We just finished moving yearlings.

i don't see no beeves in that picture! what you running?
mostly black angus here. with some old limousin brood cows.
and just to fit the thread, they do well here in Griz country! they all carry .58's

 

[nightwolf1974]

...............redacted..........................

 

[Africa58double]

This is… the Place to discuss Muzzleloader Elk/ Black bear hunting rifles.

This Subject is… about Hunting with a Muzzleloader, becouse we are a muzzleloader site.

And Hunting in a Environment that also has “The Big Bruins” is the discussion.

Im not worried
A Double .58 with Heavy Conicals and A 45 Revolver….. Both with the Swiss Holy Black and RWS caps.

Appreciate the Post tho.
Just wanted to see what others opinions Are on what “They” use.

If you are worried about protection against "blank", try a place where you can talk about "unmentionables".

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I shoot a .50 cal Frontier caplock but I wouldn’t count on it as a bear gun. I can’t load fast enough.

 

[Ballshooter]

I would use my .54cal with a .530 roundball and my .454 casull BFR loaded with some 400gr hard cast flat nose for self defense.

 

[Dibbuk]

My choice would be the biggest caliber that you can comfortably and accurately shoot with "big game" load, whether it be PRB or conical. A rifle that knocks you on your ass with a hunting load is not likely get used very much.

 

[David Veale]

Up close- last resort- 20’ I’m sure a cap and ball revolver to the Head would be sufficient to stop something, Hopefully.
I’m looking into a Conical 255 Mould for my Ruger Old Army. It would be about equivalent to a 45 Colt blackpowder load of 850fps. That was stopping charging horses back in the 1800’s. I’d imagine that could help. Better than a sharp stick.

I'm not so sure. I know of a guy (known by his friends as "Bear Bait Bob") who was attacked while moose hunting in alaska. Put his rifle down, looked through his binocs and only saw brown. He carried a .357, which he emptied in the bear's mouth as it attacked. Had his scalp torn off and arm mangled... so maybe the .357 saved his life, but not by a whole lot.

One of his friends regularly carried a .41 mag. When a big sow came up to him and reared up on her hinds as he was unloading fish from his boat, he was able to drop her with a single shot to the throat (seems odd to me, but that's what I was told). Maybe it slipped between vertebrae and paralyzed her?

I also remember reading an Alaska DFW report where they compared different rounds for skull penetration. 12 gauge slugs generally did not penetrate the skull but ricocheted off, as did all pistol rounds if I remember correctly. High power, high velocity rifles were the only thing that consistently penetrated the skull, which is about the only spot that will consistently drop them before they chew you to pieces. I've also heard of attacks where the bear had been hit in the heart -- but kept attacking for quite a while before that ultimately killed it.

I suspect most muzzleloader rounds would be no better than the 12 gauge slugs, as they would have similar velocities and soft lead that would be more likely to deform and ricochet rather than penetrate a thick angled skull plate.

 

[Packrat]

Hunting in Pairs is the best, carry a 25 auto, shoot partner in leg and walk away

 

[Elmer E LaBrash]

I hunt with nothing but muzzle loaders (except for ducks) I use a Bresien underhammer 45 cal. 405 gr. and 96 gr of 3F. I have shot 20 deer +/- without ever finding a projectile in the deer. The thought of facing a bear with that rifle, even though I shoot it well -- well, it ain't happening. I had a great uncle, a gunsmith from Oregon. I met him once when I was 6, 70 years ago, at his gun shop. I was looking at all of the mounted heads on the wall, one of them was a Grizzly. Seeing I was in awe of the size he told me how to hunt them: "I always take a big bore rifle and a BIG handgun, when I see a Grizzly I get down on one knee and squeeze off a shot, then empty the rifle, If he is still coming, I take out my handgun and empty it into it's head -- and if he is still coming I reach down to get a big handful of "scat" and hit him right in the face with it!" I asked what happens if there is none there? He said "oh, don't worry "it will be there"".
I just moved back to Minnesota from Pioneer, CA. A beautiful place with lots of bears. There are a lot of stories about them opening a car like a tuna can, and that is just black bears. I can't imagine facing a Grizzly with a muzzle loader.

 

[Elmer E LaBrash]

OK, something else. After a days hunt this year, I got back to my Jeep and de-capped the rifle. The cap had no propellant in it. I have never had that happen, my caps are CCI, I never thought to check them before use. One of the early posts on this thread talked about adding a few grains to the cap -- never heard of it. Is it of value? And, what's the reason?

 

[SOLANCO]

This may not be he most popular take on the subject, but here's my .02 for what it's worth.
Regardless of caliber, gun, etc., etc., it's all about training...Training, training, training, training, and more training.

The caliber and gun you should take is the caliber and gun you're most comfortable with. There's was a good video I saw a while ago (I'll try to pull it if I can find it) where they were arguing the efficiency of .45 vs. 9mm against a bear charge. They mimicked this by trying to shoot/hit a 3 foot workout out ball that was thrown at them (this was achieved by the thrower standing behind the shooter and bouncing the ball of a surface in front of the shooter.) And wouldn't you know it, caliber didn't matter because no one could hit a moving target coming right at them.

If you've ever had the misfortune of drawing a gun in self defense, you'll know just how hard it is to overcome the adrenaline dump your body experiences. The only way to negate these effects and be effective in this kind of situation is practice and comfort with your caliber/gun of choice.

So I'd say pick whatever you feel most comfortable/familiar with and practice drawing down on a moving target a few hundred times.

If you achieve proficiency you will loose it if you stop practicing.

 

[Africa58double]

Well Gents- The Ak Wildlife Fish and game feel a 12g shotgun with 1oz (437gr) slugs is Sufficient.
I’ll be taking a .58 Double with Better Ballistic Coefficient and I cast them at approximately 8-9Bhn.

Perhaps this is not sufficient enough
I do agree - Bigger is better.

The T/C Maxi can be used, They are 600 grains. And with 125-135 grains of 2F Swiss….

That’s Africa Safari powder

I’ll keep
The Roa 45 with 255 Kaido bullets for face to face i suppose. Seen them bullets with 777 penetration of over 11 jugs of water- that’s impressive.Or I’ll carry a unmentionable revolver.

I'm not so sure. I know of a guy (known by his friends as "Bear Bait Bob") who was attacked while moose hunting in alaska. Put his rifle down, looked through his binocs and only saw brown. He carried a .357, which he emptied in the bear's mouth as it attacked. Had his scalp torn off and arm mangled... so maybe the .357 saved his life, but not by a whole lot.

One of his friends regularly carried a .41 mag. When a big sow came up to him and reared up on her hinds as he was unloading fish from his boat, he was able to drop her with a single shot to the throat (seems odd to me, but that's what I was told). Maybe it slipped between vertebrae and paralyzed her?

I also remember reading an Alaska DFW report where they compared different rounds for skull penetration. 12 gauge slugs generally did not penetrate the skull but ricocheted off, as did all pistol rounds if I remember correctly. High power, high velocity rifles were the only thing that consistently penetrated the skull, which is about the only spot that will consistently drop them before they chew you to pieces. I've also heard of attacks where the bear had been hit in the heart -- but kept attacking for quite a while before that ultimately killed it.

I suspect most muzzleloader rounds would be no better than the 12 gauge slugs, as they would have similar velocities and soft lead that would be more likely to deform and ricochet rather than penetrate a thick angled skull plate.

 

[Africa58double]

OK, something else. After a days hunt this year, I got back to my Jeep and de-capped the rifle. The cap had no propellant in it. I have never had that happen, my caps are CCI, I never thought to check them before use. One of the early posts on this thread talked about adding a few grains to the cap -- never heard of it. Is it of value? And, what's the reason?

Had my First CCIMagnum #11 cap give issue and not go off other day. I have 1000 RWS I’ll be starting to use. Also a trickle of 4F in nipple hole,will be something I’ll look into also.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Not too much, just a trickle and the cavity under the nipple set should be dry. You don't want a black powder fuse.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Well Gents- The Ak Wildlife Fish and game feel a 12g shotgun with 1oz (437gr) slugs is Sufficient.
I’ll be taking a .58 Double with Better Ballistic Coefficient and I cast them at approximately 8-9Bhn.

Perhaps this is not sufficient enough
I do agree - Bigger is better.

The T/C Maxi can be used, They are 600 grains. And with 125-135 grains of 2F Swiss….

That’s Africa Safari powder

I’ll keep
The Roa 45 with 255 Kaido bullets for face to face i suppose. Seen them bullets with 777 penetration of over 11 jugs of water- that’s impressive.Or I’ll carry a unmentionable revolver.

Take along a bottle of soy sauce, heard they like that. I hunt a lot with muzzleloaders and some of them are large bore but saying that and I never have hunted grizzly bears but have hunted successfully black bears. I would go with a large bore center fire rifle and a large bore revolver. Why risk it. Good luck and good hunting. Pics after the hunt would be nice.