How clean is clean?

[Pete Gaimari]

It freaks out my dog, so we make a game out of it.

 

[Josh Smith]

You know, when I got my first muzzleloader, just a CVA Bobcat, I didn't feel like cleaning it after shooting one day.

I pulled the barrel, took it outside, braced it, and it the inside with the power sprayer :rotf:

I bet it shot water 20 feet into the air out of the flash hole!

It was kinda' fun.

Josh

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Pete nailed it :thumbsup: .

If you don't have Balistol you can use your Rem Oil, or do as I do and use vast quantities of Birchwood Casey Barricade. I re-install the nipple, then soak a patch in Barricade and spray some into the bore. Using my Range Rod, I push the soaked patch down the bore with the nipple pointed away from me (in a deep sink or outside), and spray comes out the nipple. This coats the entire ignition pathway with Barricade rust preventative.

The next step can't be stressed enough: STORE THE RIFLE UPSIDE DOWN ON A PAPER TOWEL for a day so that any excess oil runs out onto the paper toweling instead of INTO the breech where it will cause a GOO condition when mixed with black powder residue! The upside down storage method saves a lot of time dealing with breech problems later :wink: and is the secret to sustained successful firing sessions where you can shoot more than half a box of balls without a problem, and rarely have to spit-patch between firings.

Dave

 

[Glenfilthie]

I tried the bore brush fellers.

I hate you all! :cursing:

I try to get my rifle as clean as I can with water, mop out all the moisture, follow that with WD40 and a mop out, then a swabbing with alcohol and a swabbing of bore butter. It is never 100% clean but I have yet to see rust so it must work... :idunno:

A little crud doesn't bother me but rust is something I won't tolerate in my fine Spaghetti Plains rifle. :wink:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I tried the bore brush fellers.

I hate you all! :cursing:

I try to get my rifle as clean as I can with water, mop out all the moisture, follow that with WD40 and a mop out, then a swabbing with alcohol and a swabbing of bore butter. It is never 100% clean but I have yet to see rust so it must work... :idunno:

A little crud doesn't bother me but rust is something I won't tolerate in my fine Spaghetti Plains rifle. :wink:

It's not rust.

It's spaghetti sauce. :grin:

 

[Glenfilthie]

I see you're an optimist, Pete?

For the good of the foolish firearm forum folk I had better leave that one where it lies! :haha:

 

[Vaino]

After removing the factory stuff, I just use very hot water and initially use a bronze bore brush followed by some patches and then a hot rinse. A couple of drying patches does it because the bbl is hot and then the Oxyoke 1000 and that's it. Never had a dirty bore after this procedure...of course I only use black colored patches. :grin: ...Fred

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

And why are we still using bore butter?

That barrel ain't no cast iron skillet, so it doesn't need "seasoned".

I think that the bore butter is mixing with some other chemical in the barrel, and turning dirty in color, and that might be what you're calling "dirt".

Try it my way and see what you get :haha: .

Dave

 

[ebiggs1]

And why are we still using bore butter?

That barrel ain't no cast iron skillet, so it doesn't need "seasoned".

I think that the bore butter is mixing with some other chemical in the barrel, and turning dirty in color, and that might be what you're calling "dirt".

Try it my way and see what you get .

Dave

I like Bore Butter, as patch lube, but as Dave says why are you using it in the bore? Stop that!

 

[Glenfilthie]

Hmpffff. That's those cool kids for ya - always pickin' on us poor devils that ride the short bus to school.

Did I get suckered? If I recall correctly, it says right on the tube of minty-fresh bore butter that it 'seasons' barrels much like a skillet; and that it protects metal too. Is that all hogwash just to sell more bore butter?

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Hmpffff. That's those cool kids for ya - always pickin' on us poor devils that ride the short bus to school.

Did I get suckered? If I recall correctly, it says right on the tube of minty-fresh bore butter that it 'seasons' barrels much like a skillet; and that it protects metal too. Is that all hogwash just to sell more bore butter?

Yes, now get back on the bus.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Hmpffff. That's those cool kids for ya - always pickin' on us poor devils that ride the short bus to school.

Did I get suckered? If I recall correctly, it says right on the tube of minty-fresh bore butter that it 'seasons' barrels much like a skillet; and that it protects metal too. Is that all hogwash just to sell more bore butter?

Yes, now get back on the bus.

Pete,

When they made you, they broke the Mold :rotf: :haha: :bow:

Aren't you the one drivin' the Bus?? :rotf: :shocked2: :slap:

Dave

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I tried the bore brush fellers.

I hate you all! :cursing:

I try to get my rifle as clean as I can with water, mop out all the moisture, follow that with WD40 and a mop out, then a swabbing with alcohol and a swabbing of bore butter. It is never 100% clean but I have yet to see rust so it must work... :idunno:

A little crud doesn't bother me but rust is something I won't tolerate in my fine Spaghetti Plains rifle. :wink:

You didn't mention whether or not you're using any black powder solvent to help break-up the crud. I use Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine, which emulsifies BP on contact. Using the "bucket method" with the barrel removed from the stock with the breech in the bucket, I use my range rod to create a suction with patches soaked in Bore Shine. You can use your Mop for this!

The pumping of the warm-hot treated water back & forth helps get rid of crud & saves loads of time. IF done right, I don't have to use a brush down in the breech since I'm using a worm with two patches :wink: .

O-K, now do as Pete says and get back on the Bus :haha: .

Good luck!

Dave

 

[paulvallandigham]

It can take Time for soap to completely emulsify( surround and float the carbon particles in the soap and water mix) the carbon residue. Many shooters simply want to clean their guns TOO FAST, and don't give the soap and water time to do their complete job.

Put a caked-on dirty dish in warm dish soap and water, and then give it 10-20 minutes for the soap to do its thing. You can watch the particles come off the plate, and float to the surface, if you are patient enough.

I put the barrel in a bucket of water, with soap in it. I then put a cleaning patch that is both Wet, and has more dishsoap on it, in front of a clean jag, and pump it up and down the barrel to fill the bore, and coat the entire bore with soap and water. Then I go find something else to do for a half hour, or so.

After that time, I use a bore brush, with a damp, soaped patch to dig out the crud that might still be down there in the corners of the grooves. More pumping action, only this time, the water in the bucket is BLACK, with few soap suds left.

After pouring out the waste water, I fill the bucket with fresh water to rinse the barrel. new, clean, wet patch is run down the barrel as it sits in the bucket, and I pump that up and down to wash out the soap, and remaining crud.

The barrel comes out of the bucket, and I run a clean, Dry patch down the barrel in front of a cleaning jag, to see if I have gotten all the dirt out. If it comes back white, without black steaks, but damp, I know I have given the soap time to do its job. I run another couple of dry patches down to dry out the barrel, and then run a oiled patch down to lubricate the barrel.

Right now, I am testing ballistol, and it seems to live up to its reputation, for keeping rust away.

I have usedWD40, in the past, which works fine for a few days, but needs to be renewed at least once a week, or replaced with a better compound.

I have tried bore butter, but its inconsistent in its results. I thought I hadn't put enough BB in the barrel when I once found some rusting, but after putting lots more of the stuff on my patch and running it down the barrel, I had similar results about 2 weeks later. It does work in the short term( during a day's hunt) when you want to keep the bore dry and free of rust while you are hunting, but I would not recommend anyone expect long term results- even if that means only a week or two. :thumbsup:

There are two sources of carbon in BLACK POWDER. The one comes from the carbon used in the powder, and the second from the fine graphite used to coat the granules. The fine granules can work into the very small pores in a steel barrel, and will leave a gray streak on your patch, even when you scrape out all the carbon from the powder. You can only remove this graphite by soaking the barrel in water and SOAP and giving it time. Patience is a Virtue!

The soap will chemically get into those pores, and pull the graphite out, if you give it time to do so. Penetrating oils can do the same thing, but are very expensive when compared to soap and water. Alcohol will also work, but again, is much more expensive. :hmm:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

You're right about the soap and the time it takes to work! In today's digital world, folks expect things to be the speed of light, when in reality, they sometimes take a short while to work.

From start to finish, I take about 1/2 hour to do the entire rifle, including checking the nipple's orifice for excessive erosion and replacing if called for.

My bucket method actually uses a coffee can laid into a deep sink next to the clothes washer. I run very warm (not scalding) water into the coffee can continuously while at the same time pumping with the Bore Shine soaked patches. This is AFTER removing the nipple and then first rinsing the barrel with just plain water, as I watch the black carbonized soot wash out from the breech. After getting the bore soaked with Bore Shine, then I do the pumping in the coffee can. Sudsy water is pumped out of the muzzle and into the deep sink, so as to enable me to pump briskly without the fear of making a mess. I've found that this extra step helps to give the Bore Shine more time to work, in effect doing as you've recommended above :wink: . So we're on the same page once more .

Aggressive pumping with a worm & two patches gets all of the way down into the breech, since I twist the patches onto the worm (about 6-7 1/2 turns of the range rod) only after said worm is fully inserted into the small recesses of the breech area, keeping it sparkling clean.

Our technique may vary slightly, but the same results are obtained: a nice clean breech and ZERO ignition problems with regular #11 caps.

If the guys that are in a hurry would just do it "our way", their rifles would always go BANG!

Dave

 

[jumbeaux]

I have thought about the pressure washer intial cleaning followed by very hot water and dry patches.....I too have been using bore butter to swab the barrel for storage in a safe with a golden rod...would gun oil be better for storage then a good cleaning before shooting again ??

rick

ps....yes I am a novice who would treasure good advice

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I have thought about the pressure washer intial cleaning followed by very hot water and dry patches.....I too have been using bore butter to swab the barrel for storage in a safe with a golden rod...would gun oil be better for storage then a good cleaning before shooting again ??

rick

ps....yes I am a novice who would treasure good advice

Rick,

The short answer is YES! I use Birchwood Casey Barricade and it works FANTASTIC! I've shot my rifles in all sorts of weather, including rain & snow!

And if you store the rifle or shot gun muzzle-down, there's usually not enough oil to even worry about doing the alcohol swab routine to get the oil out of the gun! I've NEVER used alcohol, and I have NEVER had a problem!

I can shoot an entire box of balls at a day-long Scouting function without using a single spit-patch. The trick is to vary the charge from 30-50 grains of 3Fg Goex depending upon the size/age of the Scout or parent. The patch lube removes the crud ring before one forms, as you're seating the next PRB down upon the charge :wink:

Bore Butter is a patch lubricant, not a rust preventative :shocked2: . See a photo from Coyote Joe on another thread and you'll see why I say this!

Dave

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Not posted to anybody.

It seems everybody got away from hot water, because of flash rusting.

I think hot water cleans better, and I got to thinking about the problem.

I also use the soapy water and clear water rinse system. Except now I add Ballistol to both steps. I think it cleans a bit better than just soap and water, and by using hot water with Ballistol on the rinse bucket it's much easier to dry the barrel when i'm done.

So far, I see no rust.

 

[ebiggs1]

I have thought about the pressure washer intial cleaning followed by very hot water and dry patches.....I too have been using bore butter to swab the barrel for storage in a safe with a golden rod...would gun oil be better for storage then a good cleaning before shooting again ??

rick

ps....yes I am a novice who would treasure good advice

OK for anybody that still does not know..........do not use Bore Butter for a rust preventive.
No matter what it says on the tube or how glorious it smells! :grin:
I like and use Bore Butter, as a patch lube, but learned the bad way not to believe it protects from rust. :redface:

A power washer is unnecessary and why would you want to any way? :hmm:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree that a power washer is not necessary. However, some kind of mechanical scraping in the corners of Square-cut rifling is essential, if you are to get the crud ALL OUT of the bore when its cleaned. I use a bore Brush with a damp and soap covered cleaning patch on top of it, pumping back and forth so that the bristles go through the thin cotton flannel, and dig into those corners to remove the crud. The crud is soaked up by the patch, or is suspended in the soapy water.

Dave uses a patch puller and some fabric wrapped around it. The double wires allow him to get down into the breech plug and scrub the corners of the breech, where crud can also gather. I don't have that problem with my flat faced breech, and the bore brush bristles seem to get back in those corners, as well as the bottom of the grooves.

I don't use EITHER HOT or COLD water because I simply don't want to burn or freeze my hands anymore. I have done that many times, and if I never do it again, its too soon.

If someone wants to risk being scalded by boiling water, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT! If someone enjoys his skin freezing to the steel barrel- have at it. :haha: I just have not found using either hot or cold water for cleaning beneficial at all. :idunno: :hmm: :surrender: :thumbsup: